New Rhino 2xCD release of Black Sabbath's Dehumanizer album - which mastering is used?

Has anyone already purchased this 2xCD and tested which mastering it contains?
Dehumanizer Deluxe 2CD
Black Sabbath - Dehumanizer

Is it an entirely new mastering? Or the terribly overcompressed mastering used for the 2008 "Rules of Hell" CD? Or the entirely different (despite the identical title, "Rules of Hell"), dynamic 2013/2014 HDtracks mastering? Or the 2011 Sanctuary mastering that was allegedly created by Andy Pearce, but actually sounds very similar to the original 1992 releases (e.g. this one)?

If anyone needs sound samples of any previous release of this album in order to compare, let me know.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Please note that this thread deals with the CD release only - there's already a thread for the vinyl edition:
Rhino re-releasing Black Sabbath's Dehumanizer

 

I just bought the SHM-CD one in the paper sleeve, darn

I need to get this one traded then, I like it in an actual case.

 

I'm curious to know too but looking at the packaging my guess would be that this is a re-release of the Pearce deluxe edition master.

 

Black Sabbath Online is saying it's the 2011 mastering but are still trying to confirm

 

Thank you. However, BSO, in this case, has no clue - they also claim that the 2019 contains an additional bonus live track, "After All (The Dead)". Which is not true - After All was included in the 2011 as well, it just wasn't listed, because it was (as on most shows of the Dehumanizer tour) played as part of a kind of medley with Master of Insanity. Regrettably, there are many other bits of false information on BSO these days, even in cases where people on the forum (which is nowadays dominated by a bunch of fundamentalist bullies) have long pointed out it is false.

It looks like that, but so far, none of the 2009 through 2011 Pearce remasters has ever been released in North America (IIRC). When the 2016 Rhino CD releases of the 1970ies Sabbath albums - especially the Deluxe 2xCD ones: s/t, Paranoid, MOR - came out, many people (incl. myself) were surprised that they actually contained very different masterings than the 2009 Sanctuary CD releases - even though Pearce was actually involved with both, and even though both Deluxe series contained the same bonus tracks (but even those were mastered a bit differently). Even more confusingly, however, the (Pearce 2012) masterings that were in fact used on the 2016 Rhino CDs had originally been created for Sanctuary as well - namely for the 2012 Vinyl Collection. Basically, at this point I have no idea what they will use for this new Dehumanizer release, given that it is the first North-American Deluxe 2xCD release of any Sabbath-without-Ozzy album. For some reason, I feel that either the 2008 (compressed) or the 2013 (dynamic, very good-sounding) mastering are more likely to be used than the 2011 one, but that's really just a hunch. Hopefully we will soon find out. Anyone here who got their copy already?

 

Considering the fact it has the exact same packaging as the 2011, I’d be willing to bet it’s the 2011 one.

 

Good point! ;-) I wasn't being a good observer, I didn't even look that close. There are small differences though, especially the corrected tracklist (After All).

 

Yeah, I was actually looking for a Deluxe Dehumanizer in the usual digipak a few weeks ago and couldn’t find one that didn’t cost $60+! Shame I didn’t wait a bit.

 

I thought you now prefer the HDtracks version anyway?

 

It’s not the exact same packaging, it has Rhino and reprise labels, and after all the dead is listed as a separate track. So the package has minor alterations, which doesn’t sound like it could mean much, but the 2016 USA CDs had some minor packaging changes as well and the masterings were different from the 2009 uk counterparts. Realistically, we can’t know until someone buys the new one and compares.

 

I was trying to own all the DEs in their respective digipaks, but had to settle with a paper-sleeve SHM-CD set for Dehumanizer.

 

I don't believe they have remastered it again. But this could still be a (relatively) interesting release - if it contains the 2013 HDtracks mastering which hasn't been released on CD. Also, this is the first time that the bonus CD is released domestically in North America.

 

Bump. Anyone?

 

I’ve compared both deluxe editions, according to the DR values, they are the same mastering. There appears to be no difference in mastering.

 

Thank you very much! Did you just compare DR values, or did you listen too? DR values being identical could be a coincidence...

 

I did both, because I don’t trust my ears completely. They didn’t really sound different.

 

Thanks again!

 

Actually, would you be willing to send me 1 song from the new release in WAV or FLAC or some other lossless format? I would like to check if it is exactly the same as the 2011 Sanctuary release or if it is possibly identical to the original CDs (both are very close but not 100% identical). Just trying to determine if WB is now routinely using European masterings for their releases, as they did on the 2014 HDtracks and 2016 CDs.

 

Track 1
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\01 Computer God.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 6.9 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC C7133244
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [9FAD8453], AccurateRip returned [0D77E3DE] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 2
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\02 After All (The Dead).wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 8.2 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC A3FAB41E
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [FE126646], AccurateRip returned [B4AA93C9] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 3
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\03 TV Crimes.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 11.5 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 39C28338
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [BB6D2E60], AccurateRip returned [E251708A] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 4
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\04 Letters From Earth.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 10.5 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 8F15119C
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [010BF91B], AccurateRip returned [07317A97] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 5
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\05 Master Of Insanity.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 6.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC C83BFE41
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [3FAF073E], AccurateRip returned [81FBDFA1] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 6
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\06 Time Machine.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 7.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 8C22718F
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [DAB74FDE], AccurateRip returned [20487C1A] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 7
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\07 Sins Of The Father.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 7.2 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3ACDC4CC
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [8A411989], AccurateRip returned [23C4C6E8] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 8
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\08 Too Late.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 7.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 2FC818C6
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 56) [7EA2E9FC], AccurateRip returned [CE25C8EF] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 9
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\09 I.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 8.0 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC B91F8560
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 57) [91F8A788], AccurateRip returned [AB8E73AC] (AR v2)
Copy OK
Track 10
Filename C:\Users\andre\Desktop\wav\dehumanizer\10 Buried Alive.wav
Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 8.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 40361FF0
Cannot be verified as accurate (confidence 55) [8CCC23E7], AccurateRip returned [AB01A61E] (AR v2)
Copy OK
No tracks could be verified as accurate
You may have a different pressing from the one(s) in the database
No errors occurred
End of status report

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Dehumanizer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9 -0.20 dB -11.29 dB 6:15 01-Computer God
DR10 -0.20 dB -12.24 dB 5:42 02-After All (The Dead)
DR9 -0.20 dB -9.56 dB 4:03 03-TV Crimes
DR10 -0.20 dB -10.96 dB 4:17 04-Letters From Earth
DR10 -0.20 dB -11.02 dB 5:56 05-Master Of Insanity
DR9 -0.20 dB -10.36 dB 4:16 06-Time Machine
DR10 -0.20 dB -11.26 dB 4:47 07-Sins Of The Father
DR10 -0.20 dB -13.27 dB 6:55 08-Too Late
DR10 -0.20 dB -12.14 dB 5:13 09-I
DR10 -0.20 dB -10.82 dB 4:51 10-Buried Alive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR10
Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 1411 kbps
Codec: PCM
================================================================================

 

Here's a sample
bsdaatd.wav (10.08MB) - SendSpace.com

 

Thank you very much!

DR, Peak and RMS values are 100% identical to the 2011 Deluxe. According to Foobar Bit Compare, the files are not digitally identical; but I cannot hear any difference. It is certainly the same mastering. Which I find quite interesting: while the 2016 US Deluxe editions of the first three Sabbath albums used entirely different masterings than the 2009 European Deluxes (Pearce 2012 vs. Pearce 2009 remaster series), this Dehumanizer reissue is probably the first time that one of European Pearce remasters is released in the US - or am I missing something? (Granted, it may not be a true Pearce remaster since it is only slightly different from the original CDs, but it is definitely labelled as a Pearce remaster, and I doubt that many people at EMI, let alone at WB, are aware that it isn't much of a 'remaster' to begin with.) I am wondering if that means that the other post-1970ies Euro Pearce remasters will also be released in the US? Given that the 2016 CDs used a European mastering as well (the 2012 Pearce remasters of the 1970ies Sabbath catalogue were originally done for the 2012 Sanctuary Vinyl Collection), this seems to be a new trend: WB using European masterings rather than their own.

 

I was really hoping for a new mastering. I wonder why they took down the Rules Of Hell box set at HDTracks. Perhaps they will be releasing them individually.

 

The Rules of Hell HDtracks were from American tapes; maybe they feel that is not good enough anymore? Maybe they want everything to be from lower gen/master tapes now, which might explain why they've been using the 2012 Pearce remasters for the 1970ies catalogue for a while.

Btw., a friend of mine believes that the Rules of Hell HDtracks are flat transfers from the American tapes, done by Dan Hersch before compressing them to death for the 2008 CD box of the same title. I see no way to confirm or refute that theory, but it might explain why the Dehumanizer HDtracks and 2008 CD is mastered much darker than on any other release while the other albums of those series are rather bright-sounding - if that's what the (American) tapes sounded like.