This is the perfect answer. No-one listens with your ears, or has to sit in front of your system. If they bring you more pleasure, and if you explain that as "they sound better", then from your standpoint, it's so. You have to justify yourself. You shouldn't need the opinion of others. There is a group of absolutists in these here parts - and they reduce everything to a mathematical expression. The world would be a poorer place if we were all that way. I've paid more for an SHM disc because of the Mini LP sleeves. No-one bats an eyelid about that. But the cover doesn't affect the sound, right? It's just a bit of cardboard, right? You can't reduce everything to its constituent parts to attain its value. I don't personally believe SHM makes even the tiniest bit of difference in the sound. But if you do, then I'm not going to bash you over the head for disagreeing. You hear what you hear, and I take your word for it that you prefer them.
First I want to thank you for this post. But I also have a question for you : Have you listened to this CD? How is the SQ of this Eric Clapton SACD?
2018 UHQCD/MQA & 2021 corrected SHM-SACD of 461 Ocean Boulevard both sound great: very natural, dynamic & not as bright as 2010/2014/2021(first pressing) SHM -SACD.
We already done with this matter, and will not discuss it anymore. Just consider this: We have two comparison tests posted here (#1301 and #1331), which prove that better-made discs sound better [I know it’s hard to imagine]. “As with anything in audio, it depends on the resolving capability of your system…” (Barry Diament) Did you ever question the resolving capability of your system? Take your SHM and non-SHM discs to your local Hi-End Audio store and feel the difference. Yes, ones in your life, Vaughan, feel the difference!
My system is not an expensive one. I paid probably a little over £3K for it. There are much better systems out there for sure. I have a bunch of SHM's because they tend to come with Mini LP sleeves these days (at least the ones I look at). Okay, so I don't hear a difference in sound, but that doesn't mean they don't sound decent when mastered correctly. I don't think I'll be changing my system again any time soon. Maybe add a Pre-Amp. My speakers are okay, but part of me wishes I'd waited to get the upgrade for them - but it was the best part of 2K more, so I settled. It is what it is.
Vaughan, please don't think that I'm criticizing your system - we don't do that on the forum. I just want you to know that if something doesn't work on your system, it doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all. All these improvements in sounds, including the Hi-Res formats, are only up to 20% of the sound, the rest belongs to mastering. And you're right, good mastering will sound decent on your system, that's for sure. I feel that someone like you, who appreciates the Japanese effort in precision printing and the exceptional craftsmanship of Mini LP covers, deserves a better system, capable of squeezing out more detailed sound just from our old regular Red Book CDs. Upgrading can be a long, step-by-step process, but you have to keep the big picture in mind. (Will all the components match after the upgrade?) Try subscribing to Hi-Fi News or What’s Hi-Fi magazine - they are really useful for entry-level equipment. Please visit our Japan Mini LP SHM-CDs - New Releases, George Harrison and more thread; Go backward – you can find a lot of information there.
Forgive me if this has been answered, but the Analogue Productions blurb on their hybrid SACD states it's the 1st time since 1980 the original master has been used (I assume the 1997 Verve edition is not?). Does this 2021 Japanes non-hybrid also come from the original master? Thank you.
Re the 1997 Verve master edition - it has been referred to by Steve Hoffman and others as a remix - as far as I know, the credits on this version usually don't indicate source or mix details and only refer to it being a 20 bit master. It also doesn't use all the LP versions. You'll notice it refers to the last couple of tracks as 45 rpm versions and don't come from the same tapes. This disc certainly sounds different than other versions. It's been available on cd and sacd over the years. It's fair to say that this is the brightest version of this album and stands out in comparison to other versions I own. What we know about the 2021 Japan SACD is that it claims to use the 2018 DSD master produced by Verve US. The previous 2018 Tower Records edition SACD of this title also used a 2018 DSD master from the US that has the following notes on the Tower Records Japan site, courtesy of Google Translate: "2018 new DSD master that is completely different from the master that was converted to DSD in the past, which was created by making a new direct DSD for this release from the home country analog master tape in the best existing condition" Used and new mastering at a studio in NY. Achieve the rich sound that the masterpiece originally has... ...Kevin Reeves (Universal Music Mastering, New York, NY) was in charge of the new mastering... The 2018 new mastering sound source is used not only for the SA-CD layer but also for the CD layer." So I think it's fair to guess the 2021 and 2018 Japan SACD's used the same master though only the 2018 is a hybrid disc with a cd layer. I don't think anyone with both versions has confirmed this by listening, though. As I mentioned in my post, the panning on the new one seems to reflect the same on the Analogue Productions disc so they may use the same tape. Suffice to say, the new 2021 SACD disc has superior sound quality in my opinion. If you don't play SACD discs, then seeking the 2018 Tower SACD/CD would be the better option.
Up to 20% difference seems high to me. Which digital format improves the sound 20% more with the exact same bits/mastering?
Thank you RnRmf for your detailed reply; I have the OPPO 205 which, of course, plays SACD, so I will likely try the 2021 Japan non-hybrid version (no doubt there are multiple threads touching on the hybrid vs. SACD-only format), if only to hear this classic in its un-remixed form, and in higher resolution. Interesting the 1997 does not mention it's a remix (I looked in vain on the otherwise excellent package) - perhaps Verve did not consider it important to mention 24 years ago.
It's an odd way to quantify a difference in sound, imo. I appreciate we all come from different places, have different systems and ears, but there's no way I could quantify differences this way. I'd start with the system. I have a Sony Blu Ray/ SACD player going into an AVR in one of my setups. I actually really like the sound, warm, full, and energetic. What it lacks is refinement. As such, in the small instances where I've been able to compare the same mastering in Redbook and SACD, I have to say the differences in sound quality on this system are a wash. Now, I also have a second stereo setup which, from an audio perspective, is more refined (and costly). On that system you can begin to hear differences, but they still vary from minor to insignificant with the same mastering. In fact, this is a testament to just how good Redbook can sound, if done right. I don't know at what point the difference becomes obvious, but a lot depends on the system (both my setups use the same speakers). The only times I have a "the SACD is the only way to go" feeling is when there's an extra feature (such as Surround) and when the mastering is different. An example of this is Bowie's Heathen album - a must have on SACD, imo. Of course, it may also be that I'm less discerning, which I accept.
I guess when they did the Verve Master series they thought they could get better fidelity by going back to the 3 track and there are pros and cons with the result. I have the remix on the 2010 or 2011 SHM-SACD and I don't dislike it but there's something velvety about the original mix that I like. For a little more insight on the new mix made in 1997 see these 2 posts from @Steve Hoffman : Getz/Gilberto Analogue Productions Hybrid SACD Getz/Gilberto SACD soundstage positioning is totally different than CD?
Prokofiev Peter & Wolf, Saint-Saens Le Carnaval des Animaux : Karl Bohm / Vienna Philharmonic, Gingold(Narr) (Single Layer) RELEASE CANCELLED!! Catalog No. UCGG-9206 JAN/ISBN 4988031441282 Don't see this sort of thing with classical. update: This one was cancelled too.... Symphony No.4 : Karl Bohm / London Symphony Orchestra (Single Layer) and this: Symphony No.6 : Karl Bohm / London Symphony Orchestra (Single Layer) Are they killing off SHM SACDs?
There is something magic in the name of Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers that pushed Universal to release their albums in SHM-SACD. Last year it was only one album “Coolin”: Now we have another one, which has never been released before: Nov. 05, 2021 (SHM-SACD) Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers First Flight to Tokyo (Live at Hibiya Public Hall, Tokyo, January 14, 1961; Lost recordings) First Flight to Tokyo [SHM-SACD] [Limited Edition] / Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers “This edition features the high-fidelity SHM-SACD format. A historic performance that revolutionized jazz culture in Japan. This is a previously unreleased live album of the first tour of Japan in 1961 by Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers, a famous jazz band led by Art Blakey, a representative drummer of modern jazz. With the strongest lineup including Lee Morgan (tp) and Wayne Shorter (ts), the band performed a heated stage full of representative repertoire such as "Mornin'" and "Blues March". The sound source for this album was recorded for the documentary film "Kuroi Sakuretsu" that followed the tour in Japan, but the film was destroyed due to rights issues, and the whereabouts of the master tape have been unknown for a long time. In 2017, the tape was discovered in the estate of a film crew member, and after several years of research, Blue Note Records in the U.S. has now released it worldwide. The CD booklet includes an interview with Wayne Shorter by Don Was, president of Blue Note Records, as well as interviews with saxophonist Sadao Watanabe and music critic Reiko Yukawa, who knew the tapes at the time, and a contribution by Ryuichiro Nemoto, who discovered the tapes. <Personal> Art Blakey (ds), Lee Morgan (tp), Wayne Shorter (ts), Bobby Timmons (p), Jimmy Merritt (b) Recorded live at Hibiya Public Hall, Tokyo, January 14, 1961. Co-produced for Reissue by Zev Feldman & David Weiss. January 14, 1961, at Hibiya Public Hall, Tokyo Live Recording Co-produced for Reissue by Zev Feldman & David Weiss.” P.S. Not specified, but the price ($41.98) suggests something like good packaging (?)
The new Donald Fagen live album "The Nightfly" is available as an SHMCD disc as is the forthcoming ABBA album.
I assume that you wanted to say: It would be nice to see Donald Fagen and ABBA on SHM-SACD rather than on SHM-CD that we can talk about here.
I don't know, but a lot of the Karl Bohm stuff seems to be slated to be released now (or has already been released) on the Tower Records Japan SACD label.
This SHM-SACD is out now. Anybody heard it yet? Since this is a single layer, they should be able to fit the entire setlist onto one disc. If the mastering is good, then this could be the digital version to get.
There is a cheaper version there that is SHM, but not SACD. First Flight to Tokyo [SHM-CD] Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers CD Album
ファースト・フライト・トゥ・トーキョー [SHM-CD][CD] - アート・ブレイキー＆ザ・ジャズ・メッセンジャーズ - UNIVERSAL MUSIC JAPAN reflects that UCCQ-1145 is a 2 disc set.
There is more than enough unique, not available elsewhere on CD stuff to justify buying them on a frequent basis.
