Oasis CD pressings and loudness issues

I'd love to see this comparison as well. I think it might add a lot of value to this thread.
I have the US Epic as well if there needs to be another copy to compare with for whatever reason.

 

Just another question for everyone with respect to the singles. Is there any particular releases that are better? Are those singles boxes complete and good quality?

 

Unfortunately I need to get my hands on an original UK Creation CD. I gladly accept donations!

 

Is there any CD version of "Don't Believe The Truth" or the single "Lyla" that is better than the Big Brother CD I have from 2009? It's an absolute ear bleeder.

 

I've commented on this quite a bit before but wanted to add here that the CD singles of Supersonic and Some Might Say (and most of the b-sides up to and including those on the Roll With It single), and the handful of unmastered final mixes in circulation from the debut album, are at a lower RMS level and have greater crest factor than the mastered versions, showing that a lot of extra compression and limiting was applied at the mastering stage.

With the info Nick Brine recently provided (combined with Owen's earlier comments on the original mastering process), this is the revised workflow for Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory...

1. Tracks recorded to 24-track analogue tape
2. Mixed down to half-inch and DAT simultaneously, with added mixing compression (rather than mastering compression), reverb, processing etc. DAT copies of the half-inch masters were made as a safety copy, as well as an option to use in mastering if it was felt they sounded better.
3. For the original 1994 CD of Definitely Maybe (and Morning Glory) Owen Morris transferred the analogue half-inch tapes "through a TC Electronics four-band stereo parametric equaliser and then into the Apogee A/D [likely an AD-500 - Ed] with 'soft limit' on and then into an Apple Mac running a basic stereo Sound Designer program for editing and assembling. Then I copied the edited stereo file to a DAT tape, which was then sent to a mastering house for ONE TO ONE digital cloning to have P Q coding etc. added, as needed for CD production. At NO STAGE did any other mastering engineer add compression or do ANYTHING other than copy ONE to ONE MY digital master." The only difference with Morning Glory was that Owen used a pair of Neve 1081 EQ’s instead of the TC Electronics parametric equaliser (Source:http://www.oasis-recordinginfo.co.uk/?page_id=6 )
4. For the 2014 reissue, the half-inch analogue master tapes were newly transferred in 24-bit/96kHz using a Prism Dream AD-2 analogue-to-digital converter. This was the source for the remastering process. (Source: article on Owen Morris' website, plus a photo of Ian Cooper's mastering console in the book that comes with the deluxe edition box set of Definitely Maybe).

So, from what I gather, it seems some here would like to hear #2, 'as is'... maybe they'll come out on some obscure and pricey Japanese release (flat transfer on SHM-SACD anyone? Not likely of course...). Maybe they could do an un-limited 24/96 download option, as a complement to the main version.

 

Those box sets are a nice collector's item and contain all the original CD singles taken from Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory. No Whatever though. In terms of mastering they contain the more dynamic masters of Supersonic and Some Might Say. And most of the b-sides on each single, up to and including those on Roll With It, are less compressed masters than available elsewhere. Hope this helps.

Another really nice item to get is the original US CD single of Wonderwall, which features an alternate mix of the title track which has the lead vocal mixed quieter and with more reverb. This mix is also on Stop the Clocks and Time Flies, but mastered louder. The US CD single has pretty good dynamics and more headroom.

As I understand it the UK album/single version of Wonderwall was a mix done very quickly at Rockfield recording studio after they'd been to see the Bluetones! Owen Morris spoke about this in MOJO when they did a feature on ten years of Morning Glory. I always wondered if it was a deliberate decision to release that alt mix of Wonderwall on the US single, or whether it was just a gaffe (fits with the fact that the b-sides on that CD are different edits - no fade in on Rockin Chair and there's some funny studio chatter at the end of Talk Tonight. Maybe someone sent over the wrong tapes...).

 

Taiwanese HDCD of Definitely Maybe from 2003

Just wondering if anyone on the forum has heard this Taiwanese HDCD edition of Definitely Maybe and can comment on the sound quality of it compared to the Creation CD? It's regarded as a bootleg, but even so, I'm curious to hear whether it sounds any different to the original UK CD.
http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=519976

 

Also, Reprise's reissued CDs of Definitely Maybe and Morning Glory (released around 2009 I think) are digitally identical to the Creation CDs. The booklets are reduced and printed in lower quality than the UK originals, but otherwise I'd say they represent a good value upgrade over the original Epic CDs (which I understand were the same UK masters just turned down a few dBs. I don't think they were any less compressed).

 

Above: The legendary "brickwall box" (an Apogee AD-500 A/D converter, introduced in 1992), which was used in mastering the original CD of Definitely Maybe. Noel said in the 'making of' documentary on the Definitely Maybe DVD that "if they're on sale I will buy one", or words to that effect.

Commenting on mastering the album in the 2004 Channel 4 documentary There We Were, Now Here We Are: The Making of Oasis, Owen Morris explained that in 'there was a new box out at the time' and that in ‘mastering it, I was the first person to make CDs be ****ing on the red line constantly; there are no dynamics…it’s just full-on, all the ****ing way. It was ****ing great – it worked! In ****ing jukeboxes round the country man, for that first ****ing year, Oasis came on louder than everybody else.’

Some background info on Apogee's Soft Limit feature here: http://www.apogeedigital.com/knowledgebase/duet-2-usb/what-is-soft-limit/

 

Pardon the possibly dumb question, as I don't know a lot about Oasis. But why would the 2009 Reprise CD's (that are digital clones of the Creation CD's) be any value upgrade over the original Epic CD's if they (the Epic's) are just slightly turned down but no more dynamic or no better sounding versions of the UK masters? What is desirable about the Creation CD's compared to the Epic's?

 

The Creation mastering sounds a little better than the Epic mastering.

 

Why is that? What was done differently?

 

I assume you're referring to the cigarette-style singles boxes? They are complete, but obviously only include the singles discs from the DM and WTSMG eras. The interview discs included can't be obtained anywhere else, so that may be a reason to purchase them. Mine are on the Helter Skelter label, though.

 

That reminds me. Does anyone have any info on how the Helter Skelter CD singles sound, compared to the Creation ones? If I recall correctly, some (if not all) of the Definitely Maybe era singles were released on this label in Europe. It's more than likely that they are identical masterings, but it might be worth checking.

I have the Helter Skelter pressings of Shakermaker and Live Forever, but they're unfortunately in storage at the moment. Interestingly, my HS Live Forever includes a radio edit of the title track, making it 5 tracks instead of 4. I'm pretty sure the radio edit is exclusive to this release (though I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong!).

P.S. First post from a long time lurker!

 

So, really, if you can get your hands on each individual single, you're probably better off in the end. Problem is I keep seeing different lists of what they include on different sites. I'm having a hard time finding ONE definitive EP and singles discography. Anyone know of one?

 

It might be worth checking out the DVD singles of these

 

The DM 10th Anniversay DVD boasts 'uncompressed stereo' - so is that the best version, or does it sound much the same as the Creation cd?

 

It's uncompressed in that the audio (in PCM format) has not been subject to lossy compression, rather than in the sense of not having dynamic range compression added in mastering.

I must admit I did do a double take when I first saw that ambiguous phrasing when buying it back in 2004! The mastering is identical to the 1994 UK Creation CD, save for the fact that the sampling frequency was converted to 48kHz for the DVD. Sad Song is mastered louder than the version on the 1994 Japanese CD though, and is presented in an alternate mix with double-tracked vocals on the chorus. Check out CD1 of the safety copy of masters set for unmastered, full dynamic range versions of the final album mixes of Whatever, Slide Away, and Live Forever. Hope this helps.

 

Original JP Definitely Maybe and 2014 Remaster:

ESCA 6045 - Japan (1994) Matrix: DP-7026 (last 2 on right underlined are bonus tracks: track 4 and 6)

99.1 93.5 99.4 99.4 99.4 99.4 99.2 99.4 99.4 99.4 90.4 (99.4 99.4)

RKIDCD70X USA (2014) Matrix: RKIDCD70X-1

100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 97.7

 

I have the Some Might Say single (have heard the others) - it still sounds pretty awful. I would hate for people to spend a lot of time and effort tracking down the singles - maybe they are marginally better, but really, we are talking different degrees of terrible. As stated above, the tracks were meant to sound like this and we just have to accept it.

 

Where's a Terminator when you need one...

 

I'm not expert in this area, but the Brothers LP's sound considerably better to my ears. Some of the rough edges/volume of the first two albums is smoothed out.

I'm in the same boat too. I picked up all the reissues. Huge Oasis fan and picked them up for my wall at the time. Except for Don't Believe the Truth, because I had the original pressing. Since then I have gotten into vinyl extensively and I really wish I would have picked up the Don't Believe the Truth reissue. SMH, at least those two should be easier to find.

 

I guess, over time, the issue was that once everyone started brickwalling their CDs, it stopped being quite so distinctive... everyone was as loud as everyone else. And, to paraphrase Nigel Tufnel (hehe), there was no "one louder" left. It could be that, with the gradual transition to loudness normalised media, there will no longer be an incentive to brickwall as everything will be adjusted to the same perceived volume on playback, removing the intrinsic 'loudness advantage' that heavily limited and compressed material has in a peak-normalised environment. There was an excellent article on this in Sound on Sound magazine a couple of months back...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb14/articles/loudness-war.htm

 

My AT440 still can't track Morning Glory for ****e, but the others sound pretty good, relatively speaking. I'm very glad I got them at the time.

 

A Creation issue of "Definitely Maybe" arrived today. I just A/B's "Shakermaker" with the Canadian Sony. The Creation is much better. The Sony is just a big whoosh with distortion while the Creation has a sound stage (albeit brickwalled).

Very happy I listened to y'all and picked up the Creation. "What's The Story" on Creation is next and then my Oasis collection is finished.