old CDs with pre-emphasis

I was wondering why some old CDs have pre-emphasis - what was the reasoning behind using it on CDs? And how are you supposed to play them properly on a modern CD player?

 

Why do you think it is a problem to play them back on modern CD players?

 

I always thought pre-emphasis was part of the Redbook standard?

 

Is it? ok can somebody explain it properly please.

 

Roger Nichols explains it in a section from this page.

Now, there may be some players that use a digital eq circuit on the de-emphasis side. And, apparently, there are some players that don't have the proper de-emphasis circuit at all anymore - but most still do, because it is part of the redbook standard, and should play any CD with pre-emphasis properly.

 

Some newer cd players such as mine (cambridge audio 840c) does not de-emphasize pre-emph CDs FYI. You basically have to convert the CD through Itunes which will properly de-emphasize it and make a CDR.

 

I also have a Cambridge Audio 840c How can I de-emphasize the CDs through iTunes, please? Does iTunes do it automatically?

Thanks

 

I dont think you have to use iTunes, try EAC or dbPoweramp or foobar2000, they'll probably do it. Nasty iTunes.

 

Foobar doesn't de-emphasize. EAC can detect flags (though an older version is recommended - can't remember which one) so a burned copy will have the PRE flags, but that's it.

SoX de-emphasizes the digital files, or WAVEemph. There is some controversy about the quality of SoX.

 

So is WAVEemph the way to go?

 

Thanks, but I own a Macintosh so no EAC (unfortunately ). Don't know the rest but I guess they run on Windows?

 

Honestly I don't know; I've just thrown up my hands on the matter. I'm hoping others can chime in.

 

So, then as I understand it, when you rip a CD in iTunes, it automatically detects the PRE flag and de-emphasizes it.
Is that right?

 

EAC and Foobar do not de-emphasize. Just put your Pre-emph CD in your cd drive and start Itunes which will automatically read that it is a pre-emph CD and will make the correct EQ adjustments when you convert the CD into WAV files. Works pretty much every time. If it does not, it's usually because the CD itself does not contain the pre-emphasis tags. In that case you can use EAC to make a CDR copy of that CD, and then add the pre-emph FLAGS to your cue file and then burn a CDR. Pop that CDR into Itunes and then Itunes will read it correctly. Hope this helps.

 

And if we dont want to use iTunes, then what?

 

Sorry don't know any other program that works.

Here are some links to the itunes/pre-emph discussion:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=38312

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=38312&view=findpost&p=339287

 

I'm grappling with this whole pre-emphasis issue myself at the moment so... some Q's:

Does iTunes show you if a CD has pre-emphasis or do you just have to take "it's word for it" that it will handle it correctly?

You say "usually because the CD itself does not contain the pre-emphasis tags". Does that mean the CD has pre-emph but for some reason (defect) does not have these tags? Or is this the TOC -vs- sub-channel issue?

Don't you mean "use EAC to make a computer copy of that CD, and then add the pre-emph FLAGS to your cue file and then burn a CDR."?

Thanks

-s1m0n-

 

No he means iTunes removed the pre-emph completely so it no longer has pre-emph on the CDR. Doesnt just remove the flags it takes the pre-emph out.

 

deleted

 

ITUNES may show that it is a pre emph CD but I haven't seen where it could so I take its word for it, i copy one track and see if the EQ changes have been made. If it hasn't then i do the EAC trick. BTW I should mention that EAC sometimes does not detect a pre-emphasized disk so it's important to add the pre FLAGS to the CUE sheet (When you put a CD in EAC, look at the right column, it will say whether EAC reads it as having pre-emphasis). I do not know if it is a defect in the disk or the TOC issue sorry. And no i mean make a CDR with the proper FLAGS, then put that CDR in your disc drive. If you mean computer copy as in copying the CD onto a hard drive then no i have not used that method (to me it wouldn't work since i couldn't put in those pre FLAGS without changing the CUE file and then burning that pre-emph CD onto a new CDR so ITunes could read it). Hope this answers your questions.

This may sound complicated but really it isn't so hopefully i've helped ya out hehe.

Here some links concerning Pre-emph/EAC/ITunes and the whole FLAGS issue.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=10981&page=4&pp=20&highlight=flags+pre+index
http://www.digital-inn.de/exact-audio-copy-english/19034-pre-emphasis-use-eac.html

 

What do you mean by see if the EQ changes have been made? How do you know? Thanks a lot for your input on this, it does help me.

-s1m0n-

 

If you're on a Mac, the easiest way to confirm all this is:

Take a CD which you suspect/know is using preemphasis.

In iTunes, rip one or more tracks to lossless format.

In the Finder, select the same tracks from the CD and drag them onto the Desktop (or somewhere else). This rips the tracks to an AIF file, but bypasses iTunes.

Compare the sound of the same track from each process (iTunes and Finder). If they sound different, then the CD has preemphasis. The difference should be pretty obvious. The point here is that iTunes will apply deemphasis, but the Finder will not.

One caveat: I have experienced one case where iTunes did not recognize a CD which did have preemphasis. I ripped the audio from it, burned a CD copy and enabled the preemphasis flag on the new CD (using Toast). iTunes then properly recognized preemphasis on the new CD, which allowed me to then get proper deemphasized audio off of it.

Hope that makes sense.

 

Actually there's a plug-in for foobar that allows you to de-emphasize:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t56907.html

 

well said.

 

I know by the way the way it sounds. A pre-emph CD that is not de-emph well sound harsh i.e. high treble and no bass. Sounds very shrill. One of the links i posted has good info on the EQ changes.