Old US Pressing of ‘Beggar's Banquet’ at Correct Speed

Anyone find another one of these exactly like the OPs?

 

Thought I'd chime into this very interesting thread.

For reasons I won't go into now I've never listen to many Stones albums thus far in my life. My first listen to an original Sticky Fingers (U.S.) a few years back blew me away. Then slowly I acquired more albums. This past weekend I came across 1st pressings of Aftermath and Beggars Banquet (credit to Jagger/Richard on back cover) in really beautiful condition (both U.S.). I consider myself proficient in deciphering matrix info (a matrix junky really) but the matrix from Beggars did not reveal anything not even where this damn LP was pressed! So I naturally came here to investigate.

Matrix #'s:
XZAL 8476A-1 with cursive numeral 2 on opposite side (side1)
XZAL 8477B-1 with cursive numeral 2 on opposite side (side2)

That's it. NO other markings, stamps, etches, etc.. Notta. LP has been cleaned and thoroughly examined under strong light.

I just compared this LP to my SHM-SACD of Beggars to see if I could tell the difference in speed with my ears and the iPhone stop watch. First I timed SFTD and they both time out just about even. Within one second of each other. Then I used my ears to see if I could tell any difference in pitch, paying attention to the piano and guitar. The same, I could not detect any difference between the two sources.

Does this really mean anything to anyone else? I don't know. But I personally think that if this DSD source is the "correct" speed, then this particular London Beggars is too. But then again WTH do I know. ;-)

 

I have one with same A B matrix with audio matrix stamped into deadwax,but has rev wilkins for prodigal son,but I can't tell if its slow or fast.

 

I know I am a bit late on this discussion but when my latest TapeOp mag arrived in the mail something triggered me to listen to Beggar's Banquet for the first time in a while and that is when I read about the controversy regarding the speed of sound of various recordings. I have the above label (showing track 1 at 6:14) and have just digitized the vinyl to audio files with my USB turntable and the length of the song (Sympathy For The Devil since it is the first track) of my digitized version comes in at 6:02. Spotify has the track listed at 6:18 but when I ripped it Wondershare says it is 6:02. I've had my vinyl for forty years and never noticed anything funky (other than the groove they got going here with Jimmy Miller) but I am going to listen to the newly digitized WAV files and compare them to the compressed mp3 files from the Web stream. Since I'm a new member and as I said, late into this discussion, maybe no one will be looking at this thread any longer but I'll follow up for what it's worth. What I am going to do next is make a CD of the digitized vinyl and compare it to a CD burned from the Wondershare / Spotify files.

 

Your copy is pressed by Decca. The '2' indicates one of their pressing plants, and the labels are their shiny stock that is extremely flat to the record surface. That's kinda cool, I don't know that I've ever seen a US Decca pressed Beggars before.

I just picked up another one of these (mostly) correct speed copies.
This one's XZAL - 8476A/XZAL - 8477B with nothing else in the deadwax. Underlined title on labels. All songs credited to Jagger-Richards. No idea where this was pressed.

 

This is my copy of the R.S.V.P. Beggars. I have the clearly classic DSD and the black vinyl DSD Beggars as well. I have never noticed that it played slower than the others. Perhaps a more intent listen would reveal it. "Prodigal Son" is credited to Rev. Wilkins. The only thing scratched into the deadwax is XZAL-8476A and XZAL-8477B

 

On my copy of French-pressed Rolled Gold, SFTD seems to run at the correct (ie. fast) speed. Its duration is roughly 6:20.
I thought I had to share this info with you guys.

 

The speed difference is pretty minor...and depends on ones sensitivity. A friend who is a stones fan & plays guitar (well) can independently tell without reference to the DSD just by ear. He plays the guitar in his head and knows when its off. I've gone through quite a few US copies now since this thread appeared, and never have found a US press thats runs the exact same speed as the DSD remaster. The US copies vary, some are closer than others. My GF ears have been useful. As I blind played copies for her she is able pick out the US copies. As she says, the music 'drags' a bit if you've heard the DSD within the last couple minutes. Without reference to the DSD I wonder if one of the closest speed US could be even be detected as 'slower' by the average listener. I barely can. I play the UK mono or stereo when I play the album.

 

In my case, I just never think about it. That said, I seldom play my London label copy, so I guess it stands to reason.

 

Well the 'slow' version is the one thats everyone has known for decades. So in thats sense theres an element of it being correct. Makes me wonder how many other classic recordings out there are technically a bit slower or faster than intended.

 

I have been putting together some Stones-on-London material. Here's what I believe about the items on this thread.
1. The photos in post #176 are of a copy pressed by Decca at the Pinckneyville plant.
2. The photo in post #181 appears to be a copy pressed by Allentown prior to 1970.
3. The copy with the "W" at the end of the matrix was pressed by HV Waddell.
4. One of the earlier posts was of a later pressing from Columbia Terre Haute. Note the "TH" on the label. Pressed after Columbia started using the darker tint labels, so probably c. 1975.
5. I also know of copies pressed by Monarch (MR in matrix, title and artist name are in round, bold print), Bestway (BW at end of matrix), and two other factories that may be Columbia Pitman and Columbia Santa Maria, but I am not certain. The latter two are label styles that don't appear on the earlier Stones albums on London, and I don't own them personally. Unlike all of the earlier albums, I do not know of any copies pressed at the Gloversville plant. Their absence may be due to the fact that Decca Gloversville had just been assigned to press all of the Capitol albums for the Capitol Record Club.

That said...the "correct speed" copies may have to be identified factory by factory.

As far as Decca Pinckneyville copies are concerned, if one has the correct speed then they may all have the correct speed. I doubt that they pressed much at all for London after this point. I don't know of any Decca copies of Through the Past, Darkly; most copies were from Columbia. I further know of none of Let it Bleed (CTH, Waddell, Bestway, Shelley, Allentown, and probably Pitman) or Ya-Yas (Allentown, Bestway, PRC, Pitman, Shelley, Terre Haute). So... I think Decca stopped pressing for London at some point in 1969.

London was starting to diversify, and by 1970 they were branching out considerably -- using PRC (Philips, "PH"), Shelley, and Sonic among others. Columbia (mainly TH) and Allentown continued from the earlier period, but Monarch also basically disappears -- showing up every now and then to press something.

It seems like some Columbia pressings but not others have the right (faster) speeds, and that maybe they switched back and forth -- sometimes using older stampers.

 

After checking every US Stereo London "Beggar's" I have come across, I finally found one. It only took four years

 

Who said perseverance is dead?

 

Good find!

 

My copy's labels are different from the OP's.
The matrix in the wax are XZAL-8476A-W, XZAL-8477B-W

 

US Decca pressed your Beggars Banquet. Looks to be a Gloversville, NY pressing.

 

Revisiting this:

Which London and ABKCO CDs are you talking about? Every ABKCO and European London CD I have are identical, with it being 6:26 from the start of Sympathy to the start of No Expectations. The Japanese London CDs are different, and are 6:28 for the same section.

 

Hello everyone! I've been trying to find which US version from Beggars Banquet I own, but I wasn't able to find the exact same one on Discogs (although I bought is as being 1st pressing from 1968). Anybody here knows?



The Matrix on side 1 says ZAL-8476-1:

Note that this version recognizes Wilkins on Prodigal Son (which I learned indicates a later pressing).

On side 2 it says ZAL-8477:


I wasn't able to recognize the pressing plant symbol:


The sleeve doesn't have the Jagger/Richards mention and looks like this:

 

Your pics didnt work. Need to host them on a pic website and copy the URL to the post

 

(now with the correct pics links!)

Hello everyone! I've been trying to find which US version from Beggars Banquet I own, but I wasn't able to find the exact same one on Discogs (although I bought is as being 1st pressing from 1968). Anybody here knows?


Note: there is no "Made in USA" unlike most label photos on Discogs.

The Matrix on side 1 says ZAL-8476-1:


On side 2 it says ZAL-8477:


Note that this version recognizes Wilkins on Prodigal Son (which I learned indicates a later pressing).
I wasn't able to recognize the pressing plant symbol:


The sleeve doesn't have the Jagger/Richards mention and looks like this:

 

That "all rights" copy with a "53" factory mark was pressed by Keel Manufacturing between 1979 and 1986.

http://www.friktech.com/stones/RollingStonesDiscography.pdf

 

Wow! I'm impressed by your shared knowledge, Frank! I had no idea (neither what's available on Discogs) of all these label variations.
Now I know that I didn't actually get "a first US pressing" batch, at least I think I paid a fair price for a VG+ (USD$18).

Do you know if this pressing that I got has the speed issues discussed in this topic corrected?

Thanks for the great support and for sharing the very detailed RS discography info.

 

I haven't heard the Keel pressing, but it certainly might. If the speed issues show up later rather than from the start, Keel might have pressed at the wrong speed.
You'll have to play it. ;-)
By the way, WB helped me match up factories with typefaces on several records -- particularly with the singles.
This the companion file.
http://www.friktech.com/stones/RollingStonesSingles.pdf

My dad was a Rolling Stones fan, so I made them up for him -- starting with what records were in his collection. There wound up being so many factory/label variations that I had to go through seemingly every record sale that ever occurred online.

In the case of pressing problems (like the BB LP), there might just be a few stampers that have it, and they might well occur mismatched most of the time. These things are much harder to track down than label variations.

 

I revisit this thread after abandoning it years ago. Not sure why I did. Maybe it was before I realized you could watch threads.

Anyway, I recently got a new turntable because I realized my old one was running fast. The new one has a strobe light, so obviously, one of the things I wanted to do was check to see if I did indeed have a correct speed Beggars Banquet.

Well, still appears I do. Sympathy ran 6:18.97 and No Expectations starts at 6:27.13. The album still sounds the same as my 2002 CD.

I have the same matrix #s as the OP, but I don't see a date anywhere in the deadwax. All songs are credited to Jagger/Richards.

Well, as I was writing this, Jigsaw Puzzle came on and did sound a bit slow, so I replayed it and timed it and it came out to 6:12.42, which is much longer than the 6:05 it is on the CD, so I guess the songs do vary. No other song on side 1 sounded off, though.

 

Decided to time side 2.

Steet Fighting Man 3:14.23 (Do all LP versions of this have a hard end? I never noticed the song coming to a stop before.)
Prodigal Son 2:51.12
Stray Cat Blues 4:39.22 (I forgot to re-lap after the track break, so take off about a second.)
Factory Girl 2:13.78 (Same note.)
Salt of the Earth 4:48.94