On The Issue Of Vinyl and Digital...

While I prefer digital audio playback over vinyl anyday, I can't escape the feeling that all things digital are BORING! There isn't much involvement in it besides popping the disc into your player and pushing play. There was a ritual that went along with vinyl like cleaning and careful handling. There were other things like seeing the record revolve around the table, enjoying the interaction between the cartridge, arm, and the table, and the sound they produced.

I spend more time and get more excited going through used record stores and buying old LPs that I never gave a chance the first time around. I collect oldies so everything that's out there exists on vinyl somewhere. Fat chance of that with the CD! No one will ever remaster the stuff I want to see on CD so I may as well seek out the stuff myself and put it on CD-R.

I can see why vinyl has held on for so long. New copyright protection schemes and record companies ever-increasing grips on catalog is going to cause a serious backlash of digital audio.

You know what? I don't even own a DVD player yet and am in no hurry to get one. I actually enjoy putting a TAPE into the VCR and like how well my eight-year-old top-of-the-line Sony VCR plays and records.

Hmmmm, I guess I know what the vinyl-lovers feel like now.

 

I hear ya...

However, regarding the DVD thing... you really should check it out! There's no love lost with me and VHS tapes - I ALWAYS hated them! Horrid picture, dropouts, noise, and they degraded over time.

Hmm.. I suppose that you could say some of the same things about vinyl, but in all honestly, vinyl surface noise never bugged me. Indeed, in some ways it's comforting (try explaining that!)

Part of what's going on here is that I feel that hi-fi audio has sounded REALLY good for a long time. Vinyl really does sound nice. Compare that to the NTSC standard that we've lived with for so long. Indeed.. when was the last time you were fooled into thinking the picture on that screen was truly lifelike? (right - never!)

But with hi-fi systems of the last, what - 40 years?! - there's been many a time when I've been fooled into thinking the band is "right there".

Hmm.. I didn't mean for this to be a ramble...

Anyways, you really should check out DVD... it's miles ahead of VHS tape.

 

I think that once Grant buys a DVD player - he will become as anal about picture quality as he is about sound quality (just kidding, buddy). I echo the previous sentiment abot DVD movies. You will find a new love for "widescreen" pictures. You loose about 30% of you screen image and gain 60% on your image.
If you knew of an audio format that was 60% better - wouldn't that entice you?

 

It's taken me almost 10 years to teach that to my father. He still thinks he's "losing picture"on widescreen... Sigh!

 

I've gone from "hating" Widescreen five years ago, to an absolute Widescreen Bigot in the last couple of years... No question about it, Pan and Scan sucks!!!

 

re Grant's msg: "There was a ritual that went along with vinyl like cleaning and careful handling. There were other things like seeing the record revolve around the table, enjoying the interaction between the cartridge, arm, and the table, and the sound they produced."
I totally agree with you. In fact, I was thinking the other day about my old Discwasher brush that I still have in the closet. I sold all of my albums some ten years ago, but I held on to that Discwasher brush. Why? Beats me... I guess you could say we became attached. Unfortunately, I do NOT have a tolerance for the dreaded "ticks and pops". It didn't seem to matter how well I treated, carressed and pampered my Virgin Vinyl MFSLs, they still seemed to have just "one or two more" ticks and pops in my favorite spot of my favorite song each time I pulled it out for a listen! Drove me Friggin' nuts!!! So needless to say, CeeDees are something I live with... With Steve's magic on those DCC Golds, I will live quite happily! But I do miss setting the anti-skate and checking the weight of the arm, and aligning the cartridge, and... Argh!

 

Don't get me wrong. I have had extensive experience with DVD but i'm not impressed. My eyesight is very good as long as I wear glasses! But, I guess i'm just licky to have had an extremly good VCR. I am anal about picture quality. I will adjust the picture forever until i get it right. I use high quality cables...I'm just not impressed with DVD.

 

What I like the most about vinyl

is that the music sounds much more homogeneous, or "together" through that medium than it does on most CDs.

As a result, you're listening to the artist instead of highs, lows, midrange, dimensionality etc. Not to say these things are not present on vinyl, but they just become second to musical, as opposed (or in addition) to "audio" experience.

 

Grant,

I also think once you get a DVD player there may be no going back. I got my first DVD player a few months after the format was released (I had been reading about it's development for years). I was very happy with the quality compared to VHS. Those days were adventerous because there were only a few titles available. I was able to easily keep track of every new release and it was also the days of the amazing dot.com coupons/rebates/giveaways (800.com started up with a promotion 3 DVD's for a penny/Reel.com just about gave DVD's away). For a few years, it was a very "selective" evening renting the 10-40 DVD's that a few rare video stores carried. Blockbuster wasn't into and at another local place (Video Stop/any New Yorkers?) the owner proudly said, "We will never carry DVD's" (they do now). Friends loved to (and still do) come to our house for a movie nights.

DVD's can look amazing yet as with any entertainment format mastering is very important. One of the best companies out there is Criterion. I think of them as the DCC (or maybe now S&P) of the film world. They search high and low for the best film sources and they add a wealth of incredible "extra" material (commentaries/deleted scenes/sometimes Lux radio episodes of the film/etc.).

DVD's are capable of incredible images (and 5.1 sound) yet the best images are very hardware dependant (progressive scan/anamorphic widescreen:4x3 images loss resolution when they are "letterboxed" by the machine by usually dropping lines/calibration/etc.).

Anyway, I'm sure you know tons of crap about the DVD format already but again, ya neva know...

Todd

P.S. Vinyl playback is fun but it can take a lot of work and never through someting on when you're having an arguement...

 

I don't miss the clicks and pops of my vinyl. I do miss being able to enjoy the graphics of the album cover, and being able to read the liner notes. I have CDs in my collection that I haven't even bothered to attempt to read the notes for. I also liked the SMELL of opening that new vinyl...rivaled only by "new car smell".

 

Lorin,

I agree 100%! Album cover art is lost on the CD format. It's just not the same impact.

Todd

 

I am of the opinion that most "clicks and pops" are caused by the owners, not the manufacturer.

 

Agreed. But ultimately unavoidable.

 

Beagle,

Clicks and pops are just sometimes part of the format. Bad pressings, static or plain-old wear & tear. I take very good care of my records and it's just part of the experience...

Todd

 

Not so ... There'll always be one or two stray pops on even the best vinyl, but with proper handling and SERIOUS cleaning (you have to be quite anal-retentive about it!) -- not to mention a high-quality cartridge -- you can really minimize them to a surprising degree.

Of course, not many people have the time and/or patience (or the money -- the tools and supplies can be costly) to clean vinyl properly, which is totally understandable. For me, the benefits make it worthwhile ...

YMMV of course ... digital is a CLEAR winner for convenience, fer sure!!!

 

It's nice to know there are still so many people that enjoy vinyl! If I want background music I put on a Cd. But if I really want to sit and listen to some tunes...ya can't beat the vinyl. Only the better quality Cd's like DCC even start to compare for warmth and deep clean sweet bass! Maybe it's just me, but most CD's just play sound...not music!

my $0.02 on thr DVD: Spend the extra couple of bucks and get a Progressive Scan DVD player. True Progressive scan, not those cheap line doublers form Pioneer, Sony and the Likes. The new units with the Faroudja Digital Video Processor are absolutely awesome! If ya really want a treat...walk right by the Plasma's and go straight to the large LCD screens. Awesome picture, and able to show 720P which rear projections will never be able to do while Plasma's are still plagued with the jitters during any fast movement on the screen.
Hold on...I'm ramblin. Sorry!!

 

Since the advent of CeeDee's cover art has been in decline. What we think of as cover art from the 60's and 70's, many children of the 90's may not appreciate in the same manner.

If you want cover art- try the mini-lp sleeves from Japan. Yes they can be expensive, and you may get newly-remastered sound, but at least you have many of the same "toys and trinkets" from the old days, except on a much smaller scale.

I have each of the 70's releases of Pink Floyd- DSOTM, WYWH, Wall, and I think its great to have the black bag, and postcards, and mini posters. I also have the 30th anniversary release of the White Album from UK, and the postcard pictures are there. Jethro Tull Stand-Up(recently released) has the actual pop-up center. The releases of the YES pieces- while nothing special toy wise, at least have the gatefold covers in their colorful glory.


Chris

 

The size difference between an LP and CD cover is what kills it for me (also the loss of production value on some gatefolds, etc.). "Sgt. Pepper" LP cover is wow, CD cover is squint...


Todd

 

Some bands are more creative with CD art. Lateralus, by TOOL, fer instance, couldn't be easily replicated in the LP world. Cool cover too.

 

Re: vinyl

A quick story. Back in 1985 during a party at my house, a friend comented on how GOOD and NATURAL CD's sound (this was his first exposure). At the time, we were listening to Rubber Soul. A nice Odeon (German) pressing of the album. (The Beatles weren't released on CD till 1987). That was the first time that I realized vinyl was NOT dead.

I really have no preference between formats - I admit to the good and bad in both. However, I never sold off MY vinyl collection, and although I do not seek out new pressings, I'm glad I didn't.

 

Exactly! You've got it in a nutshell.

 

Possibly, but the problem is that in most cases, you aren't the original owner. Why didn't I buy that 1A pressing of Parsley Sage Rosmary and Thyme when it came out? Oh, yeah, I wasn't born yet...

Vinyl may be nice when you have a mint pressing, but finding one is easier said than done.

Let's see...I've been to probably a dozen or more record stores here in Madison lately. I've seen a handful of copies of PSR&T, only 1 of those being a 1A. I've seen one or two copies of BOTW, none being 1A. I have yet to see any other S&G LPs.

The only Byrds LPs I've seen have been Greatest Hits and a twofer of MTM/TTT.

I still haven't played this 1A of PSR&T - who knows if it's any good or not. I won't (hopefully) cause any more pops and ticks, but I can't do much for what's already on there, now, can I?

 

I for one do not like cleaning records or tweeking turntables. I don't like any of the extra work involved in LP playback. I also don't like suface noise. But I do like the sound I get from LPs much more than CDs. That is the payoff. As for DVD. I think it sucks. Obviously it doesn't suck as much as VHS but it sucks. My old laser disc player kills my DVD player for picture quality. But then again I think video as a medium sucks.

 

Grant, I find cd's boring not because of the ease at which I can get the music started, but because of the involving sound. Believe me, it IS NOT FUN to adjust a cartridge, arm and table. Yes, it is a labor of love, but once done I leave it alone and listen. I wish GOOD playback was as easy as popping in the cd. If the sonics were there, then turntables, with all of the work needed to CORRECTLY set them up, would be a thing of the past. BUT IN MY OPINION (and some others,too) the only way to get truly satisfying sound is with a turntable.

 

Open up to us and tell us how you really feel about digital anything.

Actually I was disappointed when I figured out the video on a DVD was only 720x480. As I've said before on this forum its only a matter of time before a higher rez DVD arrives.

Does anyone really think the current HDTV standard will be around as long as NTSC?