Okay, after over 40 years of pretending to be an Audiophile and vehemently preferring vinyl, in order to be able to play my 7000+ FLAC albums I've given in after seeing a great review of the SMSL DO200 DAC, and yes, quite surprisingly, it doesn't sound bad at all (and it IS very nice to be able to play my FLAC albums through my primary system instead of my secondary computer/movie system) I was able to set it up so that the FLAC files play completely Losslessly over the MusicBee player (excellent, BTW!) using it's direct output codec to the DAC bypassing the computer OS and all volume controls, etc. That is why I think it sounds pretty good (absolutely BLEW away the sound quality of Foobar!) Now, 2 things... well, 3 things... I would be really curious to know what Sandra Bullock looks like naked. But, that can wait... So, firstly if I want to play CDs, which does not happen often, will the sound be better just playing the CD in my computer drive and then still use the MusicBee to play the files Losslessly to the DAC and my main system? OR... is there ANY benefit at all of using my OPPO player and running say from its Optical output to the DAC and my main system? Number 2... Oh, I already did that earlier... (sorry ) Number 2, and this is likely either more tricky or impossible. Is there a way then SOMEHOW to play 2 channel SACD's through my OPPO, which I'd be much more likely to do, and be able to send some kind of digital signal to my DAC and my main system? I know the SMSL has several inputs, but the OPPO is super old. I know my OPPO has 1 HDMI output, but that is currently going to my Plasma television for movies. Any thoughts here about 1) any better quality playing CDs through my computer drive/MusicBee/DAC/Main System as opposed to CD's through my OPPO/optical out/DAC/Main System? In other words, either use my computer drive or the OPPO for the actual CD transport? The computer connects to the SMSL by way of an Audioquest USB cable, and from the OPPO would be an optical or whatever going to the SMSL. And 2) ANY possible way to output SACD's through my OPPO to my SMSL DAC digitally with high quality? If I had more analog inputs in my amps I would probably just use the OPPO's internal DAC and output a nice set of analog interconnects to my main amps, but the amps are super old too, so no more inputs. And, I'm GUESSING that since the OPPO is about 12 years old, wouldn't the quality of the brand new SMSL's conversion be better anyway, IF I could get a digital signal there from my OPPO? Thanks!
Get one of these.......... HDMI/MHL Interface Audio I2S/DSD/Optical/Coaxial HDMI To I2S IIS for DOP Board | eBay
I, personally, would let the OPPO handle your physical music. Technically it should be transparent, regardless that it’s older.
Ah, some kind of switcher, thanks! So, do you happen to know that with this older OPPO, if I play an SACD will the signal go out through the HDMI output of the player? If so, will the signal change at all? Because, according to the way this switcher LOOKS, it appears that if the signal comes out through the OPPO's HDMI output okay, then I should easily be able to use the, what, optical / Coaxial / I2S output of the switcher to go to the equivalent of my SMSL, is that right? Thank you again!
Ive got the same OPPO, but mine needs the repair. Ive been emailing OPPO with no response, I'm going to call Wednesday.
Yeah, these guys have always been great over the years. I sent mine in about 2 years ago to have them go through it, replace the laser and whatever it needed for about $100 or so. I just now wrote them about this
That is not a switcher. That is a unit which will extract the digital audio (including DSD data) from your HDMI output and . Your Oppo cannot not do this natively. This means that without this unit you cannot play SACDs through any DAC from your Oppo. However, before buying one of these units, you need to verify that your DAC supports the DoP standard for DSD playback.
Thanks for letting me know. I THINK it does... I wrote OPPO too and they said that the SACD will play through the OPPO's HDMI output. I showed them (what I called the 'switcher') and they think that as long as it is able to convert from the HDMI to the I2S of the DAC, it SHOULD work. Does that sound right?
Yes, this de-embedder will output DSD via its I2S outputs. But it also will output DSD as a DoP signal via its coaxial output. I2S is a trickier beast to work with though, as there are multiple I2S transmission standards. So these need to be the same on both ends. I believe that this unit uses the PS Audio standard.
Uh Oh... Did you just say PS Audio...??!!! J/K Ah, well I guess I'll have to follow your advice and do some research here to see if the coaxial will work just in case, thanks again!
A few quick things: 1. Foobar should not have a sound. If there is a difference between it and any other music playback software it means something is either not configured correctly, or a processing feature is engaged within Foobar. I have both Foobar and JRiver, and there is no audible difference between them when replaying things in native mode. 2. The best option for CD playback would be to rip your CDs, however, in the short term you may want to use the PC drive or buy a cheap CD/DVD player to use as a transport -- this is to limit use of your Oppo drive in case you need it for SACD/Blu-Ray playback. 3. The product information and user manual for your DAC can be found here: DO200 (English part of manual starts on Pg. 14.) SACD = DSD64 and your DAC supports DSD64 (in the form of DoP) via all its wired interfaces, so you could use coax or optical if you want to avoid the HDMI/IIS issue. However, (a) you will need to use the IIS interface if you want DSD rates up to DSD512 and PCM rates up to 784 kHz, and (b) your DAC has configuration controls for the IIS interface. From a quick glance at this document: https://audiophilestyle.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=29238 you may need to set the IIS pin configuration to Inverted with DSD Data R on I2S Data +, this is because the PS Audio settings in the above document have DSD Data R (-) on that pin, hence use of Inverted. However, take this with a pinch of salt as I just glanced at this quickly. The de-embedder linked mentions PS Audio, so we should expect the IIS output to correspond to their definition. Maybe someone else has a better link for where these are all defined.
WOW! And, I send my firstborn where...? Holy Smokes man, when you answer something, you really answer don't you! thank you so much for all the excellent and most helpful information! So, you're saying that you THINK that I can just simply run the optical out of my OPPO to my SMSL DO200 and still be able to play SACD's? I realize you were mentioning something about using the I2S for higher bitrates, but I didn't quite get it. So, with what resolution (if that is the right word) would my OPPO play an SACD out of the optical output through the optical in my DAC? Because if I don't have to mess with the de-embetter, that would be simpler. Odd though... I thought that Sony only relaxed the SACD output requirements to HDMI. I was under the impression that the OPPO will NOT play the SACD signal through anything else, thus the need for the de-embetter. Thanks kindly again! And, if you ever wish to adopt an Audiophile, I'm pretty low maintenance...
You CANNOT run optical out (or coax for that matter) from your Oppo for DSD (SACD's) ONLY your Oppo's HDMI out will do it. You will NEED a HDMI de embedder (audio extractor) exactly like the one I linked to earlier on. It is the cheapest solution for you by far but there are others...... Connect from Oppo to De embedder using HDMI ( ensure Oppo SACD menu is set correctly) Then connect from De embedder to your DAC using I2S (another HDMI cable) or using DoP which would be a coax or optical cable. DoP is more straightforward but tops out at DSD64. I2S may have compatibility issues with your DAC as the De embedder does NOT offer I2S pin assignment adjustment. As long as your DAC offers it in it's Setup menu though (some do) then I2S is still on the table for you and also has the advantage of offering higher DSD. FWIW........I use the same box ( DoP via coax) between my Oppo 205 and Gustard X26Pro DAC with zero issues. BTW..........The De embedder also offers HDMI out for passthrough to your TV which is handy for you as your Oppo only has one HDMI out.
Yeah, I kinda thought so, thanks man! When I wrote OPPO about this, they seemed to indicate that only the HDMI would output the SACD signal. Sounds like the de-embedder will be the way to go. I'm glad you knew about that. I noticed on eBay where you linked that there SEEM to be other ones that look identical (all from Australia I believe) but about half the price (about $50 as opposed to $100) They LOOK identical, but I'll hafta check more closely. So, I am a bit unclear about the bitrates we are talking about. If I simply use the de-embedder optical output, what kind of bitrate will it play from a typical SACD? And, what is the native rate of a typical SACD? So, if I am able to use the I2S out of the de-embedder and interface it properly with my DAC, what would be difference in bitrate. Because I do NOT stream and I don't play DSD files per se. The SACD or DVD-A or Blu-ray-A would be the only things I would play, so how would that relate to my choice of output bitrates from the de-embedder? When you say that DoP is more straightforward but tops out at DSD64, what does that mean? And, isn't SACD DSD64? ***EDIT Remember, my only other choice is simply to use the analog outs of my OPPO on my main system instead of my secondary computer/movie system that I am using now. So, that is why I'm trying to see if I can do all this digital stuff if the difference in bitrate to my primary sound system is worth it. Thanks!
Oh, I just saw this: FWIW........I use the same box ( DoP via coax) between my Oppo 205 and Gustard X26Pro DAC with zero issues. BTW..........The De embedder also offers HDMI out for passthrough to your TV which is handy for you as your Oppo only has one HDMI out. Right, so you are happy with the coax/optical and you don't mess with the I2S, so maybe I should just do that too since both your OPPO and your DAC are better than mine
All from China...... The cheaper ones won't do DoP...... You will get DSD64 inside a PCM 176.4 "container" when playing a SACD Native rate of a SACD is 2.8224 Mhz which will then show on your DAC display. I2S can offer a higher rate but you would need to feed it a .DFF or .DSF higher rate file For you playing SACD's .................DoP is perfect. Re SQ...........You should get a better result using your external DAC as your Oppo is pretty long in the tooth now!!!!!!!
Okay, so from your research and your own device, I DO need to get the exact one you linked then, the one for around $100? So if DoP (which you use) is fine, then I can simply output from the de-embedder through the optical to the DAC, right? Would that be my best choice? Just one last thing (for now ) What exactly is the OPPO doing when it plays an SACD through its stereo analog outs? What bitrate is being played at that point through the stereo? And, exactly what bitrate would then play doing it this way you are recommending though DoP and the DAC? If you could really simplify it for me to show the two differences, that would be great! Now, with all this said (I guess THIS is the last thing...) What do you think the difference in sound quality would be if I just used the OPPO and ran the analog outs (now going to my secondary system) as opposed to doing all this to output the DoP from the OPPO to the DAC to my main system? BTW, I don't know if this would give you any context, but this is my system: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ja3UKob7tppW4Y38
Yes Oppo uses it's DSD capable DAC to read a DSD64 SACD. No difference Try with a CD to confirm.......connect oppo to DAC at coax/opt level and compare.
There is no number to call OT Service (Oppo). I received two email responses from Oppo today. The original email was sent Saturday with a response earlier today. I sent an email thanking them for their help and they responded two minutes earlier. Not sure what email you’re using to contact Oppo. But something isn’t right as I’ve never had any issues getting responses to emails over the years.
Several other manufacturers have adopted the PS Audio Standard for I2S connections (this is because they were one of the first to do this), not just PS Audio. So this is one of the more common "standards".
Same here. Here is the e'mail that I always have used: (BTW, they wrote me back twice today in my asking about this issue ) OPPO Service: [email protected]
@latheofheaven, @Linger63 has covered the bases in my absence, but a few follow up comments: 1. SACD discs ONLY support DSD64. If you do NOT have a need for higher rate file playback*, you can set up as follows: | Oppo | (HDMI OUT) --> (HDMI IN) | De-embedder | (coax/optical OUT) --> (coax/optical IN) | SMSL DAC | In this case, when you play an SACD the de-embedder extracts the DSD content and creates the DoP format (essentially re-formatting the 1-bit DSD into 24-bit PCM words -- the data does not change, and the DAC restores the 1-bit form prior to conversion, so this process has no effect on audio quality and it is just to fool the S/PDIF interface which knows nothing about DSD). This then gets pushed through the coax or optical link to your DAC. If you play a Blu-Ray, the de-embedder extracts the 24/192 PCM (for example) and pushes that to the DAC via the same connection. The limit of the DSD and PCM data rates is set by the limits of the S/PDIF interfaces. S/PDIF was created in the days of 44.1 and 48 kHz PCM. Designers/manufacturers have pushed the performance to now support 88.2, 96, and, in some cases, 176.4 and 192 kHz data. Since DoP wraps DSD data in a 24-bit/176.4 kHz PCM container, the combination Oppo/De-embedder/SMSL will support all PCM rates up to 24-bit/192 kHz and DSD up to DSD64 (which is the only rate supported by SACD discs). So, based on your comments, you would be covered for all your use scenarios. * - if you did need file playback, you could simply go USB into the DAC! 2. If you find you need/want to use the I2S connection, and based on @Linger63's comments about his Gustard DAC, then you would connect a HDMI cable from the I2S OUT on the de-embedder to the I2S IN on the SMSL. Looking to the file of pin layouts I linked to, it seems Gustard uses two versions of the I2S pin configuration, one is the same as SMSL, and the other has the left and right data channels swapped. Unfortunately, @Linger63's X26 is NOT included in that file, so we don't know which version it uses, but the menu controls on your SMSL should allow you to alter the settings accordingly. NOTE: the Gustard configurations are INVERTED compared to the PS Audio, at least according to this document. So, some experimentation may be necessary. Given 1. above suits your purpose, why even consider I2S? Some DACs perform slightly differently via their different interfaces -- sometimes one measures better than another. Measurements by the likes of JA at Stereophile sometimes show more/less jitter (for example) via one interface than another. So, if by chance the I2S interface performed better you may want to consider it for absolute performance, though how audible the differences may be is anyone's guess, as these modern DACs are all measuring pretty much at the limits for things like jitter anyway (read @Archimago's blog posts to see what I mean). 3. If your Oppo plays an SACD via its analog outputs, then it is doing the digital-to-analog conversion of the DSD64 data contained on the disc. Whether this results in better sound quality compared to the SMSL is for you to decide. As suggested above, try comparing using a CD for now. @BradOlson, some of the Sony Blu-Ray/SACD players undertake a negotiation with the attached DAC to see which PCM rates it can support and then converts DSD on-the-fly to the highest rate supported (usually 24/176.4, but 24/88.2 in some cases). How much difference this makes to the sound quality depends on the quality of the conversion routine. You are not the first to state that the Sony's seem to do a pretty good job in this regard.
Ah... Absolutely lovely, thank you! Okay, now I have a good grasp of what's going on (along with the others' help too, of course) Yes, scenario #1 is perfectly fine and even for a bonehead like me, I think bulletproof. Looks like I am indeed going to have to get the de-embedder then. I wonder if the one unit suggested to me, on eBay from Australia I think, is the only choice for $100, or if there are any other kinds. Thank you so much for spelling it out very logically so that I could understand! ***EDIT Oh, and yes, the FLAC files play beautifully through the MusicBee's lossless codec which bypasses the computer's OS and all volume controls and goes directly to the DAC by way of an Audioquest USB. For a person who has studiously avoided most things digital for over 40 years, I must admit that this li'l bugger does sound pretty damn good through my primary system!
