Orson Welles' "Citizen Kane" DVD questions

Citizen Kane DVD

I have a gift voucher from Amazon.com that was given to me for my birthday, and I am considering getting the Citizen Kane 2-disc special edition DVD set - there has been no version of Citizen Kane on DVD issued in Australia. I was wondering if anyone had any views on the quality of this release.

I note that a 2-disc version of Kane is also scheduled for release in the UK soon, but it seems to have a different set of extras, and I am wondering if it will be a different print/transfer.

Aside from the Kane set, I am toying with the idea of going for the Mildred Pierce DVD, which has been well reviewed here and there, and is a classic piece of noir-ish filmmaking. Any views on that one? I also would like to get "The Shop Around the Corner", and "The Man With X-Ray Eyes" and "The First Men in the Moon", and ......

 

The Kane discs are great - and I'm not the world's biggest fan of old movies. There's a documentary on the second disc contrasting Hearst and Welles which is really interesting.

 

Thanks - I guess similar arguments apply to digital restoration of film and audio recordings - overdoing it can create various problems, and there's an art in getting it just right. I'd like to know the story with the forthcoming UK version...

Mildred Pierce is a nasty story, and probably doesn't quite fit into the noir genre - more of a Hollywood melodrama. But I really like the visuals in it - the use of black and white in some scenes is astounding.

 

Needless to say, this was gone over with a fine-toothed-comb over at HTF--perhaps too much so.

It's true there is a bit too much of a clean-up--at least when viewed on a 'normal'(that is, non-projection or plasma or HDTV)television. The old Criterion CAV laserdisc has what some consider the proper hue and grain, although the truth is, you really had to be there in 1941 to preview that negative under optimum conditions to know what it should have looked like(which is why not even the most ardent cinephiles can agree on the color scheme of GONE WITH THE WIND!, except most believe no video version is accurate, probably also true of many Technicolor films, including THE WIZARD OF OZ).

I like the DVD a lot, though. Any misgivings are offset by the sheer thrill of the film itself, and the stark sharpness of the B&W image, and the retention of the messier aspects(the newsreel)that some have opined might have been 'spiffed up' too much. Maybe, maybe not. It all comes off very well, IMO.

The bonuses--most of all the many still photos--are also a great joy to see.
Behind-the-scenes material, it was once said, would 'demystify' a movie and render it a lesser experience, but I've found the opposite to be true: the MORE I've learned about the films I love the most, the more intriguing and remarkable they seem to me for pulling off the illusion.

I'd go with Kane; like Steve, I'm no fan of MILDRED PIERCE, and never liked Crawford, except in her earliest days, when she hadn't yet taken on that dreaded harridan persona she rode until the end of her days(and apparently adapted in real life, if MOMMIE DEAREST has any truth to it).


ED

 

Thanks Ed - sounds like the US Kane set is a must have. BTW, what do you think of the Roger Ebert commentary?

Re Joan Crawford - I agree with you, she is not what I regard as an appealing character in Mildred Pierce, nor in anything else I've seen her in. Re Michael Curtiz - I haven't seen Casablance in years, and I don't have any version of it on film. The current version on DVD has been well reviewed, but i believe i read somewhere that a 2-disc special version id due out soon.... that would be tempting.

I still have to fill in other gaps in my collection - The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep - any comments on those ones?

 

Ebert's commentary is informative, but most viewers will be familiar with a lot of that info, anyway: several important books--my faves being those written by Charles Higham and Pauline Kael--pretty much told you everything essential(and much more)Ebert covers(his commentary on the DARK CITY DVD, on the other hand, is a must listen!) Having said that, he covers as much as he can well, considering there's so much going on!

THE BIG SLEEP is worth having because it has two cuts of the film: the theatrical version, and a version with previously shot inserts where the dialogue was different, and Lauren Bacall so uncomfortable it was decided to reshoot many of her sequences with Bogie--hence the delay in the film's release. One wishes for a deluxe edition with serious extras, but for the price, worth having. The original cut is still just about the best film noir detective story you could want, arguably superior to the excellent MALTESE FALCON. Unlike KANE, these prints do show their age a bit--which is not always a bad thing. They're certainly unpolished, and likely were back when first seen in theaters.


ED

 

Steve,

A worthy rant. People need to be made aware of this stuff.

Modern technology can be wonderful. It can also be a disaster in the wrong hands.
The world needs ranters who know what they're talking about.

Thanks.

John

 

Yes, I recommend the DVD also. Steve's very right to rant about the over-use of digital clean-ups, etc. Sadly, the were very over zealous removing grain. I think in one shot some of the rain was cleaned up too. Hopefully one day there will be another release which gets it a notch up but this is really great for now...

Todd

 

Love your rants, Steve Also very true, which I think was one of my points about the image: it's obvious a major clean-up was done, a bit too pristine, which is always a bad thing for cinema--or music(obviously).

Exactly why I keep my Criterion lasers. Having seen films at art houses in my early '20s, I came to understand a certain amount of grain is inherent to celluloid. That is what strikes me about DVD remasterings now: older films WITHOUT any significant grain, yet many other specklings and markings on the negative are often left intact.

I caught that 'lightening' of the projection room scene, but it's not the only one. In fact, some significant scenes are a bit 'overbright,' if that's the word. Makes me afraid to watch the DVD again, except to make sure I darken the image to compensate next time...

So imagine my surprise when, while viewing the Queen LIVE AT WEMBLEY DVD, there was grain on that image, and it stays there throughout! Now, this is a 1986 taping, but I'm pretty sure that was out on LD at one point, and I remember seeing the grain there, too!(a rental, I would guess; don't have a copy). The image has been improved, but the inherent limitations of the filming are apparent, too, even while the image is fairly sharp and free of color saturation.

Funny how the way DVD images are mastered can be transferred to how music is remastered these days. Spooky and depressing, too...

ED

 

This removal of grain gets on my nerves too. Why the heck did they have to use that method on 'Snow White'??

 

BTW Ed, a Google search on HTF returned "Home Theatre Forum" - is that what you are referring to? I wasn't aware of it, but will check it out.

I was aware of the Big Sleep having the two versions - I saw the re-released version with different scenes in a cinema here a few years ago. It's such a great movie. Unfortunately, the Australian PAL release omits the alternate version, but in other respects is exactly the same package - weird.

Speaking further of films of this era, I have wanted to get the Criterion version of The Third Man for a while, but could not afford it. In the last couple of months, Universal have released a version of The Third Man on PAL DVD here in Australia - it seems to share a few of the extras found on the Criterion disc. I don't know if the print is the same as the Criterion, if that's even possible. Anyway, I bought it for AUD $20 (approx. US $12), and it's pretty good. Plenty of grain in the film, and lots of contrast. The blacks are nice and dark. There are quite a few specks here and there, so it hasn't been digitally restored to death obviously. All in all, it's a good version to have.

Also picked up the Sunset Boulevard DVD - haven't had a real close look yet, but it appears to be a very nice transfer - I understand that a major digital cleanup was performed on it. I'd be interested to hear how any of you view this restoration in comparison to the Kane DVD.

 

Mildred Pierce, which is a movie I like a lot, would IMO be worth it even if you don't like Crawford, for the bits with Eve Arden. Classic 'smart-talkin' dame' stuff there.

Just watched Casablanca recently on DVD, and was well-pleased.

The Falcon is probably my second favorite Bogey, after 'Treasure of Sierra Madre; which INEXPLICABLY is still unreleased on DVD.

The Big Sleep is a goodie too, thogh the story is confounding. The bookstore scene is a classic.

The Third Man (Criterion Edition) is *excellent*.

As for Citizen Kane , it is of course a must-have -- I must remember to pick it up some day.

 

I believe 'Treasure...' is coming out sometime later this year.

Also, the Criterion 'The Third Man' is very, very worth it. The transfer is amazing (new digital transfer was created from the restored 35mm fine-grain master positive, made from the original nitrate camera negative) as well as the extras. Heck, you get the enitre Lux (soap) radio version of a Harry Lime prequel with none other than Orson...

 

Paul, yes: that's what HTF is. Be warned: it's a HUGE site, takes a little time to navigate easily if you're not used to it(and even then, sometimes... )

But if you want a wealth of info on a specific release, and search for a bit, you'll find more than you might ever want to know. With(last I checked)38 THOUSAND members, 137K threads and 1.5 MILLION POSTS(!!!!!), it's a hell of a ride. So much so, that in the past they've had fund drives just to add more servers! Then there's that cruise thing....


On the neg side...it's just not for me, except to check in and read reviews of a new DVD I might want to buy, to get a general idea of what's what. Too rigid and impersonal, no room for the kind of camaraderie and humor we have here. With so many members, when peak times hit, you can't carry on the kind of trains of thought and exchanges of banter that makes this forum so special. And some longtime members have little patience for people with either a)a sense of humor and frolic, or b)a questioning attitude toward certain beliefs carved in stone by core members and by the owners of the site. Since I fall into the a & b categories, regularly, I've never felt welcome there, and it took me a few years just to sign up. Some great people there, but it's BIG...

I guess I prefer us while we're still in the CBGB phase: makin' noise, rockin' and rollin', gettin' noticed, but still very elite in so many ways.


ED

 

Although this series of articles by Rober Harris have been touched on before in this forum, you should check them out if you haven't. This particular link discusses the issue of film grain and its removal: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/robertharris/harris122002.html

 

"Film grain is not the enemy."


"Tape hiss is not the enemy."



Would this comparison be accurate?


ED

 

Thanks for the comments, and the info on HTF, Ed. And thanks for the film grain article, Steve. I've read Robert Harris's column at the Digital Bits site before - some great stuff there. Boy, he knows his movies.

Now he was one of the guys who worked on the Vertigo and Rear Window restorations, wasn't he? Saw Vertigo on it's re-release a few years ago, and of course have the DVD - an amazing job. I think Rear Window is even more startling after restoration - I got the DVD version, and it was a revelation to see it in a clear clean print with beautful colours.

 

"Flutes! There's no sound in flutes!"

(Sorry - this won't mean a thing to anyone that hasn't heard the Buddy Rich Tape)


I can watch Citizen Kane over and over and it still is magical to me. I enjoyed the DVD a lot - I think the commentaries by Ebert and Bogdanovich are both interesting. Ebert seems to get so involved in the movie that he loses his breath trying to describe things as fast as he can. Bogdanovich is more personal, which is to be expected since he was a friend and collaborator of Welles'.

I originally read that they were going to prepare a Welles commentary track from the hundreds of hours of audio tape he recorded while being interviewed for Bogdanovich's book "This Is Orson Welles." Probably they are saving that for the 75th anniversary dvd...

I've read a couple of the biographies on Welles, including Bogdanovich's book. He was incredibly gifted (and incredibly stubborn, unlucky etcetera) and he lived an amazing life.

 

ED

 

That is awesome Steve - what a story. I'd love to know what he said about Kane, but it can be your "Rosebud"...

The guy was a genius, no doubt. I think The Magnificent Ambersons is a great achievement, despite the fact that he lost control of it. The Lady From Shanghai is pretty good too... I watched the restored version of Touch of Evil recently - a great film, but not one that I like that much - I find that it is a bit too strained for my liking, and the young lovers (Heston and Leigh) seem rather silly. Years ago I saw a later film of Welles' called "F For Fake", which was a very clever documentary-style film about how we can be duped - and Welles played the trackster/conjurer to a tee.