Pete Townshend Rough Boys: Gay Themes

You bring up an interesting issue, and I disagree wholeheartedly with you. I ain't heterosexual, yet I relate to overtly heterosexual songs and my collection is full of heterosexual themed music, boy meets girl, etc. One's sexual preference has NOTHING to do with whether one can relate to a good piece of music or not, as zillions of gay men and women who love the Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, and the Who can attest to. Love is love.

 

As 22Drow said...

Who cares?

 

Funkadelic/Parliament had "Jimmy's Got A Little Bit Of Bitch In Him," which was more tolerant than the title would suggest.

Elton John's "The Bitch Is Back" was a huge hit that seemed to flirt with coming out of the closet. Rocked even harder than "Rough Boys."

 

I guess it falls outside of the timeframe (I think it is early 90's), but Bruce Springsteen's "My Lover Man" always gets the Boss discussion groups going. This particular set of lyrics definitely has a certain homoerotic flair coming from Bruce.

You treated me hard and made my heart ache
I know you're only human, and men they make mistakes
Your life with her turned to black
And now you want our love back
Well come into my arms and fall, my lover man

Was it a gypsy's curse or a hex sign
Or was it just that simple thing that led you from these arms of mine
Oh yes, I've had the days
To grow used to your foolish ways
And what is it really, after all, my lover man

I can see the change in your eyes
There's no need to apologize
We stood at the wishing well
Our dreams like coins into the water fell
The water so cold and black
There was no going back

I don't mean to cause you hurt or cause you pain
Life is short and love's a dirty game
Now there's no need for our game to end
Come close and we'll begin
To find our beautiful selves again, my lover man
My lover man
My lover man

 

Accept's "Balls to the Wall" album's broken English lyrics are peppered with homosexual references throughout.

Lyrics were credited to "Accept + Deaffy". I always wondered if this Deaffy guy, whomever he is, was responsible and li'l Udo knew not of what he sang.


Nah...probably not.

 

Just remembered another talented band that deals openly with gay themes: Pansy Division. I wouldn't describe them as hard rock (more pop-rock, Young Fresh Fellowsy) and they are a modern band (not 70s/80s) but their songs are openly (and sometimes quite explicitly) gay.

 

"Who's Gay" and "Who's Not". When I first read this, I thought it was a clever play on the "Who's Next" album title.

I guess they could follow them up with "Who Cares", or was that what they titled their Bob Geldof produced album of the late eighties??

 

The 90's band Kitchens of Distinction supposedly has a lot of gay themes in their music. An old roommate of mine had one of their CDs and the I noticed that the lyrics seemed homosexual in nature but I never really listened, so I just checked on allmusic.com and sure enough...

Someone beat me to "Raw Deal" by Judas Priest. I just got Sin After Sin last week and caught the lyric "...New York, Fiyah Island..." I thought that this was interesting because I didn't think Halford had come out that early, so I checked the web for the complete lyrics. (Fire Island is a barrier island that runs along the southern shore of Long Island, New York (where I grew up) that has some well-known gay beach towns (and some great "straight" ones too, BTW)). It's not really obvious that it is about a gay bar unless you know of Fire Island's reputation, but still pretty bold for a still relatively unknown metal band, and at that time ('74 or so). I wonder if the rest of the band knew what it was about.

 

There are certainly some songs on the wonderful albums by the extremely talented Rufus Wainwright that qualify. I got to meet him after he opened for Roxy Music a couple of years back and he's a really nice guy. We talked about Jeff Buckley who Rufus is often compared to.

I never give it any thought as to a performers sexual preference. The only exception is that if I go see Indigo Girls or Melissa Ethridge I know that I can drink a lot of beer cause the mens room lines are non existent at their shows.

If it sounds good to me then I'm gonna listen to it.


Peace-
Norm

 

I'm with 22drow on this. Think about it: 12% of the U.S. population is African American. If music can only be popular if it hews closely to the statistical majority, how come I have so much African American music in my LP collection? I grew up in an overwhelmingly whiite environment.

 

Nobody's mentioned Jayne(Wayne)County????

 

ummm.......LITTLE RICHARD!!!.....Sal Mineo (he made records too!)........Dusty Springfield.......Cole Porter......Whitney Houston.......David Lee Roth..........Paul Stanley.........Evel Knievel.......Doug Pinnick.......Chuck Panozzo......Mitch Ryder.......Long John Baldry.......Lou Christie.....Barry frickin Manilow..........Billy Squier.........Sylvester........Peter Allen........Ricky Wilson.....Fred Schneider.........Sandy West.........Ani DiFranco.......Phranc........Dan Hartman.......Tommy Keene.........Michael Quercio..........MeShell N'DegOCello........Queen Latifah.........Jan Wenner.......Dave Clark.......Grant Hart......Glenn Danzig........Kristian Hoffman.......Lance Loud........Leee Black Childers.....Robert Stigwood.......Kit Lambert........Billy Preston........Merv Griffin.......Danny Fields........Marc Moreland.......and Ricky Martin.

 

As Steve said, this shouldn't turn into a "Who's gay and who isn't" thread. I don't really care either(although you did forget Elton John, zip! ). As Norm said, if it's good music, who cares about the sexual orientation of the creator?

Evan

 

I think zipzorp was humorously listing people who have been rumored to be gay at one point or another. (Looks like he left off the obvious Elton, Bowie, Mercury...)

 

I think what he said works if it only goes one way. It seems that homosexuals are more likely to digest anything heterosexual than heterosexuals would digest anything homosexual. This might have to do with whether one is in the majority or in the minority, as if one is in the majority, it's easier to not have to think about it or to think about it negatively as being "abnormal" and something undesireable to think about in the first place (as a couple of posts have not-so-subtley implied). All of this might also cause homosexual musical artists to write songs that are more generic or sound heterosexual (man singing about a woman and vice versa) in order to be more popular or accepted - especially early on in their careers - which perhaps leads to the lack of overtly homosexual songs.

I think all of this is too bad because it cuts out a pretty big portion of humanity. I just don't think the average Joe has gotten to the point where he can or wants to listen to a song about two guys in love (though, hypocritically, two girls might be "hot" or something) and be able to extrapolate the main ideas of the song, as he probably gets stuck on the idea of two guys in love and stops there. However, since a homosexual has to grow up in a mostly heterosexual world, he or she learns (lest he or she goes mad) to look past the surface and/or enjoy something else about the music.

 

Ah, I was just about to respond to 22Drow's "disagreement" (nothing wrong with that) of my earlier comments, but Chasing 8 and Wags just did a pretty good job of expanding on what I was going to say.

Of course music made by a minority group can be accepted and enjoyed by the majority. Larpy, I think it was, made a comment about all the music made by African-Americans in his collection. Being a jazz fanatic, I'd say 75-80% of the music in my collection has been performed by blacks or other minorities. But in most of those cases that music doesn't dwell *so specifically* on the "black experience" (whatever that might be). In other words, I can relate to the music whether I'm black or white, in part because the difference between blacks and whites is so superficial. On the other hand, since the predominant difference between heteros and gays is one of sexual preference (hardly a superficial distinction), it's much harder for me to relate to a love song, for example, between two men. (I can appreciate the song for other reasons - it's artistry, musicality, hooks, etc. - but I'm unlikely to relate to it *as much* on an emotional level due to my personal experiences.) I'm reluctant to draw a comparison between "black music" and "gay music" because I don't think they're truly comparable (though others obviously disagree), but if I had to I'd say that I can appreciate, for example, 60's and 70's soul and R&B far more than contemporary gangster rap since those earlier songs are (for me at least) dealing with subjects and themes that are more universal (again, to me) than guns, violence, and crack-ho b*tches. (There, that should get Grant into this discussion. )

And again, my initial comments weren't meant to imply that a majority group couldn't appreciate the music made by minorities (that would be a ludicrous statement, and while I've been accused of saying dumb things - often by my wife - I'm not wont to spout such idiocies in public.) No, my earlier statement was more specifically directed as to why I didn't think too many "overtly gay themed" songs would become "hits" with the general population anytime soon.

Anyhow, just wanted to add that this is one of the more interesting threads on the forum of late. I wish there were more responses to it but I fear that the potentially sensitive subject matter might deter some posters.

 

I know this has been the subject of previous threads, but I wanted to bring up again the issue of Elton John's "Daniel," a lovely song that has occassionally drawn the "is it gay?" response. I believe Elton (and Bernie?) have claimed that it's not about a gay man but instead (IIRC) about a "brother" (literal or figurative) heading off to war (or at least back home to Spain). I dunno; I've never bought that. To me, the song is far richer for its ambiguity and multiple meanings. I think it can be about all those things, and - especially since Elton's coming out - I think it's at its most beautiful when considered as a paean to a gay lover. Yes, it was a hit, but not because it was a specifically "gay" song.

 

I'd like to think that a poignant love song is a poignant love song, regardless of the genders or gender involved. Can't we all relate to love?

But it does seem true that "sexy" songs are different: culturally (at least in the U.S.), we seem to judge women singers harshly for expressing lust whereas we all but expect male singers to do so (and then admire them as studs!). I think that's a double standard that ought to be addressed and overcome. And maybe it's starting to be.

Couldn't sexy "gay" songs work the same way? There's a double standard in finding them "objectionable" that we should investigate and, I would argue, overcome. Just because we're not used to hearing a particular perspective doesn't mean we have the right to expect it to be censored.

 

That's fine if you don't like songs with lyrics about homosexual subjects, but later in your post you contradict yourself by stating that you think Rough Boys--a song which explicity talks about the gay experience ("rough boys, I want to bite and kiss you")--is "a great song to my ears." When I say "explicit" I'm not talking about porn or about describing explicit sexual acts--I'm not interested in hearing that either. I'm talking about a clear statement in a song about a homosexual experience, which isn't necessarily a sexual experience anyway (how about simply love between two men--don't automatically think sex) in the context of a masculine hard rocking song. By the way, masculinity and male homosexuality are not antithetical.

 

I always thought the lyrics were just using a sexual metaphor to describe Townshend's desire to understand/emulate the young punks who were dominating the music scene at the time...In any event, the 'Songfacts' web site has an interesting synopsis -

"About gays in America and Punks in England. Townshend was making fun of them because they dressed alike, as the fashion for both groups was leather and military-style clothing. This started rumors that Townshend was gay or bisexual. He told an interviewer that this was about being gay, and the article made it sound like Townshend was coming out of the closet. Since then, he has not confirmed or denied that he is bisexual, believing it should not make a difference."



- joe s

 

Anyone that was in the audience for the 1993 solo show at Jones Beach knows first hand.

Quote:

"I like girls and I like boys too"

 

I don't appreciate the tone of your response or your assumptions about what may or may not be a "personal issue" for me. You don't know me. Don't assume that anyone who disagrees with you has an "agenda."

Who's misquoting whom now? Read my post again. I NEVER claimed you said masculinity and male homosexuality were antithetical. You did however imply it in your interpretation of the song which led to my assertion. And you went further than just talking about that individual song, you spoke at length about songs that deal with homosexuality.

If you read my post again you'll see I was not making it a personal issue, rather a political one. Your characterization of *my* remarks in this public forum is wildly off base. I'm responding publicly to your public post. You did not show me the respect you say you have for me. I made no speculation about your personal beliefs, only about your public statements. I do not know you and would not make presumptions about your personal beliefs, of which I have no interest. I find that it is you who is making "wild speculation" about MY beliefs, or "agenda" as you call it. And, we do agree on one thing: that is unwelcome.

 

Wags and 22drow - the acrimony ends now! Please move on...

Thank you for your cooperation.

Bob

 

Wags,

We can leave the posts. All I ask is that "we" move on past this present posture...

Thanks,

Bob