Player pianos?

A friend is buying a house, which currently has a grand piano in the living room. She does not play, so no reason to offer to buy from the sellers, but it will leave a large open space.

However, aren't there player pianos? I remember uprights that would play mechanically from a piano roll, surely there is some grand piano version of that? How much would such animals cost? (Hmm, wouldn't hurt to ask the sellers if that is a player grand, though I didn't notice any indication of such...not that I'd know what to look for...)

 

Yamaha Disklavier

 

I love a piano, I love a piano, tra la!

But that said, much as it pains me to do so, I would strongly advise against taking on a player piano unless your friend wants to learn to play or wants to start collecting player piano rolls. Speaking as one who, for unhappy reasons, is faced with disposing of three medium-sized grand pianos, I can state from experience that the market for them is pretty much dead; once your friend has a piano, she will have it. And have it. And have it.

Pianos take regular maintenance; they must be tuned every six months or so, so it's not free to have one sitting in the living room. Once planted, they are hard and expensive to move. And they do take up a lot of space. If your friend has that kind of space and the kind of money it takes to buy a piano (even in this dead market, they aren't cheap to buy, just good luck selling a used one), my counsel would be to buy a really good stereo and some records or CDs of great pianists interpreting the classics.

If she really does want to get into player pianos, she has a few options.

First, there's the aforementioned Disklavier and like computerized player systems installed in modern pianos. She'd go to a new piano dealer to buy one, most likely. I believe some of them can also be retrofitted into at least some modern pianos that were sold without, but if so the cost doubtless would be high.

Second, there are the "vintage" equivalent, the so-called "reproducing" pianos. Back in the late 19th/early 20th century, they were a mechanical marvel, approximately duplicating the touch of the artist who recorded the rolls as well at the notes, and many of the most celebrated pianists of the day cut rolls for them. A fraternity of collectors of such instruments does exist; how healthy it is these days, I don't know, but if it's like the antique phonograph collectors' world I inhabit its ranks are aging and thinning. I once heard one of these beasts in action, and at its best it was uncanny. Reproducing pianos, however, are intricate, aged devices requiring extensive restoration and maintenance, and even when in good fighting trim they present all manner of awkward questions about playback tempo; unlike a record, a reproducing piano doesn't change pitch if the speed on playback fails to match that on recording. One must also face the usual sort of "competing standards" problems that arise when a new technology draws competing better mousetraps, as at least three systems were in common use: Welte, Duo Art, and Ampico. Incidentally, Welte also manufactured a mechanical piano player (as opposed to player piano), the so-called "vorsetzer" (German for "sitter in front"); it was a big cabinet with mechanical "fingers" that could be rolled up to any piano and play from Welte reproducing rolls. If you see a grand piano with four legs at the keyboard end, it probably was a reproducing grand at one time; the extra legs were to support the weight of a slide-out drawer containing the mechanism. Note that modifications to the action of such instruments may give them a different "touch" from that of a conventional piano.

Third, there are conventional "pianola" type player pianos, which simply deliver the notes from a punched paper roll. I'm told the ones that rely on a human pumping pedals to drive the mechanism are preferable to those with electric motors, as the "manual" option enables the owner to engage in some rudimentary "expression" by varying the speed of the mechanism. From what I gather, the old players generally need prohibitively expensive restoration by skilled technicians who are neither easy to find nor inexpensive to hire, while many of the new ones out there are poorly constructed.

I hope that helps a bit, and I am sorry to be a caster of cold water on an interesting idea, but, honestly, if your friend doesn't play and isn't interested in playing herself, I would not consider buying a player piano.

 

Excellent post @drh! Not only very complete, but impressing that someone would know about reproducing pianos, much less mention all the brands!

Unless someone is already a serious pianist, having a piano will be like being in a needy relationship you can't get out of. To the OP's question, clearly there are options of self-playing instruments, but they are still physical instruments that need maintenance. The 6-month tuning schedule is very real, if you want it to keep sounding its best. But buying a piano of any kind to fill a big space and not play is a terrible idea.

If someone is a player, there's no substitute for a grand, but what you want to do is learn, there are many "stage pianos" and keyboards with weighted keys that are prefect for learning. They are small, portable, never need tuning or maintenance of any kind, and unlike grands or uprights, there actually is a healthy market in which to dispose of it when you're finished. Todays digital pianos have real key feel and response, so learning on one, then transitioning to a real piano isn't much of a problem. But learning to play wasn't mentioned, so again, probably not applicable.

 

Well done on the reproducing piano. There used to be an outfit in Southern California that restored and sold such animals along with Orchestrions. Apart from collectors and the well-heeled buyer of interesting artifacts, I would think that many pianos sit untouched in homes and are treated more as furniture than as instruments. I have owned some vintage grands and they aren't easy to maintain. There's nothing like a a full sized grand piano. I know the electronic keyboards have improved considerably (I have a Nord) but would dig having a Rhodes, just for that sound. (Throw in a B-3 and a couple of Leslies while you are at it). I have no idea what the current market is for slightly used, and still useable, pianos from Steinway, Bosendorfer or vintage pianos from Bechstein or the like.

 

Thanks to you and to @jaddie for the kind words. The market for the high-end brands still exists, but it's pretty weak. What's happened in the piano world is that digital instruments have done unto the low-to-middle segment as cell phones have done unto the low-to-middle segment of the camera market: wiped it out. Serious students and musicians still want the Steinways and Bechsteins of this world (albeit not in huge numbers; note that I have one of each, and the Steinway is one I'm trying to shed, along with a Chickering and a Feurich, so far with no nibbles), but when Mom and Dad want to get Junior a practice piano to start lessons, assuming Mom and Dad even want Junior to take them any more, like as not they no longer have any interest in a modest spinet (thank God! awful things) or console upright. Instead, they'll get a digital from the local music store, which, by the way, has every incentive to push them in that direction, as the profit margin on electronics is much higher than on acoustic instruments and digitals present opportunities for "upselling" that acoustic pianos don't. Also, pianos no longer serve as status symbols/marks of "culture" the way they once did--elaborate home theatre systems with gigantic screens have largely usurped that role. 20 years ago there was a fair market for mediocre white "baby grands" as pieces for realtors to stage in homes for sale or for decorators to plant as statement pieces. I don't know if that's still the case, but I have the impression is isn't.

 

Not at all, I had not thought of any of those points. Makes me wonder if piano moving (there is also an upright...in the same room!?!?) is why the sellers asked for an escrow extension

 

Yeah, pianos especially baby and full grand DO have a way of filling up space elegantly, space that would otherwise look vacant. (My friend she doesn't want a pool table either, and nixed my idea of a gigantic floor aquarium...)

 

Maybe not a bad idea-my librarian mom found various research showing piano players rarely get Alzheimer's.

 

Man I'd love to have a grand piano. I don't really play but I'd sure give it a go. On a related note my granddaughter's piano teacher is encouraging her to get an actual piano (upright.) She has been learning on a Yamaha electronic keyboard at my house. Turns out used pianos are basically free, or really cheap--like $80. People just want them gone, the big expense in acquiring them is getting someone to move it and tune it.

 

Yes, a good, solid used piano is an excellent choice, and a well-restored American instrument from the "golden age" of the '20s or '30s can be tonally superior to anything of like size you could buy new today. Just be careful you don't get an old wreck that will hinder her performance. Big old full-sized uprights, often players with the player mechanism long gone, are the stereotypical trap for the unwary. They may well have what's called a "bird cage" action, in which case they can't readily be serviced. Even if they don't, they and many other old pianos are prone to have pin block issues that mean they won't hold a tuning or won't even tune all the way up to A=440 standard, and the expense of addressing a bad pin block will exceed the value of anything below the elite level of instrument. Also, I've just learned that if they have ivory keytops they become subject to pesky federal regulations that complicate the process of buying and moving them. Older "freebie" pianos also often have action problems that can be expensive to fix.

If she's looking for an upright, please, please, please avoid spinets. They are uniformly abysmal, with drop actions that are neither responsive to the player nor readily serviced, and their short bass strings guarantee poor sound. When new, these were the Crosleys of the piano world. Ideally, look for a "studio" upright (46" or so) or decent (restored or reasonably recent) "full" upright (50 inches or thereabouts). These will have long enough bass strings to have hope of sounding decent and decently designed actions. I'd recommend having your granddaughter's teacher check out anything you're considering, and conventional wisdom is that if you are taking from a private party, have a registered piano technician check it out, just as you'd have a good mechanic check out a used car in a private sale.

A good resource is Larry Fine's The Piano Book; I'm not sure what is the current edition, but it's been more or less the Bible for used pianos, and new ones for that matter, for a good 25 years or so.

 

Was the former owner of the house a piano teacher? Serious teachers often have two pianos in the same room, one for students and the other for the teacher to play backgrounds and demonstrate technique without evicting the student from the bench. Serious pianists might also have two if they play repertory for two pianos, four hands or concerti, in which case they would want a second instrument to play reductions of the orchestral scores.