Swapping in a different amp and expecting to be blown away, that sounds like setting yourself up for disappointment. When I swap amps (which is often), I have to spend some time on repositioning the speakers, trying different interconnects or speaker cables, etc, to optimize the system as a whole. This isn't a plug and play hobby, to me at least. When I rotate my Naim amp into the system, this is even more true than with some others. I find Naim to be very sensitive to cabling, when the match isn't there it can sound plain wrong. YMMV.
I actually have Naim speaker cable. I wasn’t expecting to be blown away I was expecting to like it more. Lol. What are you talking about man? Seems like there are some people who can’t accept that others have a different opinion on some gear. Imagine that. We all don’t like the same things. Ha
I would definitely let it stay powered up for 48 hours before passing judgement. If its brand new will take longer, remember every internal component has a certain percentage of variability that it operates under, ie 1kohm resister may function 950-1050 ohm until "warmed up" to a steady state operating temp so to speak. Obviously multiple components to settle in. Make sure you are plugged directly into the wall, no power strips etc, naim draws high current. Agree with the above that amps are not plug and play, but you should easily be able to compare the main attributes. One suggestion would be to close your eyes and listen to a favorite record, keep track of how many times you are distracted away from the music(phone, magazine,computer), or how often you are singing, tapping your feet. Over 20 years in this hobby, these seem more reliable than audiophile description comparisons.
Yeah it’s been on non stop and will continue to keep it like that. I don’t power my stuff off. I definitely look for those attributes when listening. Thanks man! My initial post also said that , I was tired and it will take time for me to form a solid opinion. Our ears are funny things. Pretty unreliable many times.
No need to be rude. I'm just saying any gear swap needs some adjustments in the rest of the system to show its potential.
Brand new Naim? 48 hours just to warm up initially. Give it at least a week of break-in before worrying about how it evaluates. Then 4-6 weeks before it breaks-in fully. That's my experience. I just started my third week with a brand new SuperLine. It gets better all the time. In the meantime listen to music and enjoy the journey.
Pardon man. I just was giving my initial impressions. It sounded like you didn’t want to hear them. Didn’t mean to be rude. I apologize
Yeah it’s brand new. I agree that things will change and they already have. The sound sig is still there. It’s more forward sounding than the Rega. That’s for sure. Now whether I like that more is up for question.
I'm currently listening to Transglobal Underground flac files through a cheap DAC fed into Naim 72/Hicap/250 with a cheesy 5 pin din - 2 phono lead and it sounds wonderful. All of the amp components are at least third hand making things a little more affordable. New stuff (by any high-end manufacturer) is out of the question.
Yeah it’s all good man. What I’m seeing is that the Naim is so tight it’s not allowing for certain parts to decay as much as I’d like them. That’s what I found in the guitar amp world as well. Always a trade off between tightness and the amp sounding more open and decaying. Let’s see how it goes.
Tone, A more natural decay to notes and a better sense of a reverberant sound field, is something that tube amps do well. Whether it is artificial or not, I like it, which is why I employ tube gear. Naim amplification, to me, has a little bit of a hard edge to the initial attack of notes and a bit too clean sounding (i.e., too quick) decay. This, to me, is characteristic of a lot of solid state gear, but, perhaps a bit more pronounced with Naim. What I do like about Naim, compared to most other solid state gear is that it doesn't sound lifeless at lower volume levels. I have mostly tube gear, but, I like Naim for digital sources.
Yup. That is what tube gear sounds like. My Rega Elex r has more of that tube warmth. Mids are very warm and sweet. Not dull mind you. You explained the way I’m hearing Naim exactly. Sharp attack and very little decay which makes things sound a tad constricted. Let’s see after more days of break in.
This is more or less how I would describe my experiences listening to Naim. Interested to know if this improves for you over the coming days.
FWIW, in the last year I “downgraded” my living room system to make it more toddler friendly. I ended up getting an XS3 and ND5 XS2. They are going into some old (1980-ish) Klipsch Cornwalls. Maybe not an ideal match, but it’s all solid and safe from flying toys and things. The Cornwalls are definitely more toddler friendly than the Kef Blade 2s that we’re in the living room. Initially I auditioned a Naim Uniti Atom on a whim and was pretty blown away with how it sounded paired with the Cornwalls. I would’ve just bought it, but I do a lot of vinyl and was bothered by the fact that the Uniti Atom converted analog signals to digital and then back to analog. So I bit on the XS3 and ND5 XS2 last summer. Before I did, I hemmed and hawed about whether to get the XS3 or the Supernait 3, and also whether to get the ND5 XS3 or the NDX 2. I couldn’t audition them, but I figured either would be better than the Uniti Atom. Well, I was underwhelmed. The Atom sounded better to me. It’s now been 9 months or so and I’ve warmed to the sound a bit more, but can’t say I’m 100% satisfied. Probably synergy with the Cornwalls. Don’t get me wrong, I listen daily and enjoy the hell out of the music and it’s good gear for the money IMO, but I go back and forth wishing I’d just got the Atom for this system or gone for the Supernait/NDX 2 for the future to run into different speakers. You live. You learn.
I am delighted to find this wealth of Naim expertise! I have an NDX 2 streamer in my system, playing music either ripped to my NAS or from Tidal HD. At the moment, it connects to my amp via the RCA outputs. Would it make a difference to use the DIN output and a DIN-to-RCA cable?
I wondered about whether a RCA-DIN would have any of the benefit for using DIN connectors, so I asked on the Naim forums. While there can be a lot of BS there as with any forum, the forum moderator Richard Dane replied that there is benefit to using one over RCA-RCA, and I mostly trust him for his vast experience working for Naim, and being pretty level-headed and no nonsense. Of course, it's best to trust your ears. FWIW: I use a Naim HiLine DIN-DIN on my NDX2.
As a member of the AN cult given my system there are some sonic and logical reasons for an all from one maker system and some reasons against. If you are subjectivist objectivist audiophile. An objectivist doesn't believe cables make a sonic difference, and follows with all properly working solid state sounds the same regardless of manufacturer or price. So amps sound the same - cables sound the same, CD players/computer audio sound the same and measurements are king. So they can shop at Best Buy and be happy. The subjectivist will believe most of these things sound different to some degree or another. So if a person believes that XYZ Capacitor, resistor, transformer, and cables can sound different (or has a sound) then there is a lot of LOGIC in the notion that a single manufacturer with absolute control can design a system that is ideally suited to all the other components in the chain. If you are the head designer of Ferrari sports cars you really don't want some dealer or owner slapping a Ford pinto automatic transmission on the thing or putting $45 tires on it. This ruins what the manufacturer has in mind. So when you buy a preamplifier and power amplifier from the same company - it is highly LIKELY that the designer has designed both to sonicaly match both on a technical level, a sonic level and indeed a parts quality level. They don't want their preamp to mated to some other designers hackneyed power amp. Again if cables matter, caps matter, transformers matter etc it is logical that the wiring, caps, resistors, transformers in the preamp, amp and CD player be in sync (the same in design and/or materials). As it is likely the case with Naim, Rega, Linn , Audio Note, McIntosh, Meridian, even Bryston etc. Synergy is probably the word - but I prefer logical. It's a design language often spoken about in cars where the back end doesn't match the front or the car appears to be designed from a spreadsheet than someone who gives a damn. The problem of course to this approach usually lies with the speakers. Auditioning a complete Linn System in the 1980s they were usually let down by their speakers. They were fine speakers but they were not the set the wold on fire quality of the LP12 turntable. Naim is not exactly beloved for loudspeakers. So in a one system set-up the speakers will often carry what people view of the brand. Audio Note always shows with their speakers but no matter how much the world press may love a speaker - not everyone will - so they are putting themselves at a disadvantage. An amp brand that has no speaker - well that can sound good with whatever speaker you the customer likes. Naim can sound good or bad depending on the speakers it is connected to, ditto Rega or Bryston, or Audio Note or Linn. But if you always hear it with their speakers and you're not a fan of their speakers then chances are you will dismiss the products in the rest of the chain. For me I tend to like the notion that everything is designed for everything else in the chain and that one design team controls the whole chain from stylus to speaker voice coil that amplifiers can be designed to take into account a specific speaker's measured response. The notion that the complete system can work to become more than the sum of their components. Lastly, I like to hear complete systems so that I know, in part at least, what they view sound and music reproduction to be. once it all gets mixed and matched I have no real way to know what a Bryston is supposed to sound like - or what their vision is. If I am listening to their power amp with Conrad Johnson preamp and Nordost cables, and a Cary CD player and Martin Logan speakers. Bryston doesn't like tubes - if they did they'd be making amps with tubes - so their engineer would not touch a CJ or Cary with a barge pole and I see no internal amps from them using silver or Nordost so it is doubtful they would use those cables. And their speakers are not ESL hybrids. So maybe the owner thinks it sounds good but the designers at Bryston wouldn't and neither would the designers at CJ and Cary - otherwise they'd be making SS amps. Other companies just make whatever they think will sell so switch from tube to SS back to tube because they are now just soulless corporations (McIntosh). They'll sell whatever design is in vogue.
Auditioned Naim with Focal speakers at a dealer. Hated the experience. Told my friends about it and they said "No way! They're all meant to pair it's all under the same owner, you gotta give it another chance. It's the best thing ever!" Brought them to the same dealer, same room, went through many variations of Naim / Focal combinations (Sopras, Arias, Uniti, XS3) and it was all an acoustic mess. Decent soundstage but the imaging was absolutely smeared into a mish mash cacophony. Bass was boomy and trying too hard. We all agreed we've been in nightclubs with better sounding music. After the session, the Naim / Focal defenders amongst my group were severely disappointed and were trying to justify saying that it was the dealer who didn't know what they were doing with a poor room, poor positioning, poor cables, or poor whatever. It could very well be the dealer's fault given the amount of love these amplifiers have received, but I can't support a brand if their own dealer can't get their act together. I've got another friend who loves his all Naim setup with his Sonus Fabers. I might go and listen there one day, hopefully that'll change my mind about things.
I heard Focal at my dealer and did not like them so much either. I have been through several pairs of Dynaudio speakers with my Naim and they always sound great, and that's what I have now.
Focal and Naim didn't hook up that long ago. So I'm not too sure why the two are assumed to pair well together. Has either company shifted their sound to achieve synergy with the other? I'm not aware of a shift, so just because Focal bought Naim (or someone bought both brands), unless they were somehow coincidentally a great match before the transaction, I'm not totally sure they should be now. I don't recall ever hearing how the two were great matches 10+ years ago. I do remember hearing the two at TAVES (maybe the 1st year for that show) and I also wasn't all that impressed. Sounded kind of hard. Naim is most commonly paired with Neat and Kudos speakers. Maybe there are other pairings as well but these are the two I think I have heard of most. They certainly will work with other speakers of course, and I'm hoping to pair my XS2 with either PMC, Dynaudio, or Spendor. Rega CD players and Naim amps is another well liked match. I could see you liking Sugden. I am listening to the A21aL feeding my Spendor A3 speakers and I have never heard decay like this before. The Sugden's biggest strength to me is clarity, and the sound when paired with the A3 has lots of decay, richness, and sounds very 3 dimensional. Feels like I can walk around and behind some of the instruments. I really want the XS2 to win but the Sugden sounds awesome so it will be tough. A lot of this might be the A3 as well, but no doubt Sugden would be a great match with ProAc, which tend to be quite easy to drive. The Sugden might not quite excel at timing though; it's very good, but it's the one area I would say where my Classe amp beats it. At least with the A3. Change the speakers and maybe that changes too.
I would like to hear the Kudos some day, not that I want to make a change. For the last 10 years I have run various Naim setups with a progression of three Dynaudio speakers (Contour S1.4, Contour S3.4, and now Confidence C2 Platinum). Dynaudio and Naim are a very nice fit together, and Dyns really like the way Naim amps are capable of providing high current and remaining stable into low impedance loads. Between my C2s and Naim 300 DR amp I can now play the large scale orchestral music I love (e.g. Mahler's 2nd) at concert volumes, and nothing ever breaks a sweat doing it.
Naim + Focal speakers is a match made in the boardroom, not in the listening room. Naim hasn't changed anything to 'match' Focal; I have no idea if Focal have, or will. I've gotten to know quite a few Naim owners, none of whom own Focal speakers. Def. not a traditional match. I've only heard Focal speakers once, at a local shop that's now moved, and it was almost 10 yrs ago. Neither of the dealers I work with (local, long-distance) carry them. You may have just been hearing speakers you didn't like; you'd not be the first not to like Focal speakers.
