PLX-1000 vs Denon VL12 vs SL 1200 MK7

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by curiousgeorge, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Gratefully Listening

    Location:
    San Diego
    Yeah, I've got a nice collection of MoFi CD's and 24 bit stuff from HD Tracks. I enjoy a lot of digital still. My old AB1006 pressing of Steely Dan Aja gets played over my MoFi CD of that title though. Also prefer Donald Fagen The Nightfly vinyl re-issue over the 24 bit HD Tracks release.
     
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  2. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    My records always sound better than my streaming and CDs. Bigger and more tridimensional soundstage. But I suppose this happens because my phono chain is better than my DAC.
     
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  3. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    I do most of my critical listening on vinyl too. I just find working on closing the gap between digital and vinyl with tracking to make it an even more enjoyable experience.
     
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  4. bluenosens

    bluenosens Active Member

    Location:
    malagash centre
    I might add I do agree with Benzion's rating of which of the 3 TT's he would prefer to buy. I would chose the Technics over the other two choices because of their track record. Not to slight the other two tts which seem to have happy owners. Anything that makes vinyl spinning a good time is good. Have a great weekend everyone.
     
    domfjbrown likes this.
  5. All three TT's look pretty good to me. Many of these types of TT's on the market come from China, made by the same manufacturer. The Technics is made in Malaysia. For Americans, we associate bigger and heavier with better. This is not always the case and can be deceptive. Instead of the weight being in the platter or motor, etc., many of the "heavy" TT's just have steel plates added inside the case. The advantage of added weight is that it helps the TT's to stay put and harder to move around in case you accidentally bump one. All your TT's should be fine and I doubt there would be much difference. You don't have to spend as much money. AT has some excellent professional TT's for less. You should pay more attention to the cartridges. Each will have it's own 'signature' sound , so you can choose the one which sounds best to you. One advantage to these 'professional' TT's, they have universal headshells, so you can have a different cartridge in each TT, swap them amongst the TT's, and compare that also.
     
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  6. curiousgeorge

    curiousgeorge Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    BELLEVUE, WA
    Thanks everyone for the feedback.

    Anyway, I finally got the Mani preamp hooked up and both the PLX-1000 and VL12 definitely sound louder and more clear. However, the highs on Norah Jones's voice still shows signs of a shrill tone at the peaks or sibilance as other folks have called it. I have tried setting the Mani to 42db and 48db and the same issue occurs regardless of turntable. Just to let everyone know the Ortofon 2m Blue I got is a Plug and Play model, so I can't align it other then balancing the tone arm and setting the anti-skate. I haven't tried to set the vertical height of the tone arms on either of turntables.

    A few other things I'm going to try

    1) try different cartridges (I have ordered a Nagaoaka MP-150 and a Ortofon 2m Bronze to try with the setup
    2) remove 2m blue from the plug and play mount and use the included catridge mounts that allow more adjustment
    3) once my SL1200MK7 gets in, I will try it with the 3 different cartridges I have and see how that goes (2M Blue, MP-150, 2M Bronze)

    The other possibility is that the Norah Jones album (From Blue Note, ordered on Amazon for $15 USD) I have is just a bad recording compared to the SACD I have that doesn't exhibit the same sibilance.

    Any other ideas folks?


    [​IMG]

    thanks!
     
  7. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    Probably the case. Ask folks in the music corner of the forum.
     
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  8. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Definetally try the adjustable headshell and the Bronze cart. That should solve most of the sibilance if set up correctly.
    And as suspected the Blue Note release is not the highest quality out there. The Classic Records and Analog Productions pressings will likely be mastered better, to be clear they are all the same recording though.

    Sadly they are out of print:
    Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
    Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
     
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  9. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    It's a bad pressing, probably mentioned several times on the music forums. The audiophile editions of Norah albums were done by Analog Productions on vinyl. Maybe try one of those if you really need this album on vinyl. Acoustic Sounds and other audiophile stores should have them. It'll cost more than $15.
     
    zombiemodernist likes this.
  10. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    That's a good way to destroy the cartridge if it's the PNP mount I'm thinking of. Pictures?
     
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    We know it's the record but keep in mind that more gain will make the problem worse. With any 2M cart I would suggest trying the 30db gain setting on the Mani as these carts measure with higher output than spec'd.
     
  12. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I'm sure you can find them on Discogs.
     
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  13. curiousgeorge

    curiousgeorge Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    BELLEVUE, WA
    I've done some more testing and I found more evidence it is the Norah Jones recording instead of the cartridge or turntables. I played the same songs via Spotify and I hear the same sibilance in my system, but via SACDs, no sibilance.

    Anyway, I just mounted the Ortofon 2m Bronze and it sounds awesome. Quite a bit better an the Blue as it sounds velvety smooth and the leading edge of voices and the highs are crystal clear. BTW, I set the gain on the Mani to 30db as patient_ot suggested and it definitely sounds better. However, the Bronze seems to have a bit more surface noise than the Blue.

    Some pics my setup
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Thats one of the downsides with finer styli. They track better, cause less wear on the vinyl and the stylus itself, but because they take up more area in the grooves they require cleaner and more flawless records if you want a quiet listening experience.
    You seem to be tracking on the lower end though, perhaps try upping the VTF to 1.75 grams? Too light tracking can cause more damage and noise than slightly too heavy.

    The correct term for the sound would be mastering however, not recording, as all the versions, even the Spotify one, share the same recording.
     
  15. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    You know you're not suppose to use these 2M PNP with the Pioneer PLX-1000 and expect it to be aligned as Pioneer recommends, right? It has a different overhang than the SL1200 these PNP were designed for.
     
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  16. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Do not attempt to take apart those PNP carts. A few people did, and it ruined them. You'll risk pulling the pins out and the internal wiring if you try. Leave them as is.
     
  17. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    What is the overhang spec for the Pioneer? PNP should be 52mm IIRC.
     
  18. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    54mm
     
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  19. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Yeah, probably not a good match for the PNP.
     
  20. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    such a great way to describe the essence of the sound of vinyl....
     
  21. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    while having a more limited pallet


    This?

    [​IMG]


    Or that?

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. fmfxray373

    fmfxray373 Forum Resident

    Location:
    san diego
    I have both the 1200 MK7 and the Denon VL12. The tone arm on the Denon is the weak spot. I like mine but if I had known Technics were going to come out with the MK7 I would have waited for that.

    I enjoy listening to the VL12 but the thought is like oh when is the tonearm going to crash and burn.
     
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  23. curiousgeorge

    curiousgeorge Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    BELLEVUE, WA
    thanks everyone for the feedback.

    fmfxray373, what cartridge are you using with your MK7? I'm getting ready to test the MP-150 I got, but so far I really like the Ortofon 2m Bronze (even if its not optimal with the plug and play)
     
  24. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    If you actually bought the 3 turntables I suggest sell them and get a really good one such as a Rega P6. Have you a preference between the PLX 1000 and the Denon? Of course more revealing cartridges show more surface noise on these decks. For lower surface noise a rather higher end deck and arm are required plus a better phono stage. Maybe experiment with mats though they won't necessarily change the overall sound that much. The 2M in the plug and play mount likely won't be aligned properly in the Pioneer. Use the supplied headshell or better still Ortofon SH4 or Jelco HS25 (later has azimuth adjustment). Later 2 with the additional weight. I find a heavier headshell with additional balance weight (closer to pivot) sounds much better (smoother and more controlled sound).
     
  25. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    sidenote: The MP-150 will sound its best after about 25-30 hours of break-in.
    .
     
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