Practical uses for 2-track mono session tape? Patsy Cline matrix info, stereo, etc.*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by .crystalised., Nov 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Was 2 track mono developed so that Patti Page could harmonize with herself, or were there other more practical reasons for this format?
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    No such thing.
     
  3. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    How did producers make vocal overdubs before stereo came along?
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Overdub on to another tape.
     
  5. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Ah, makes sense.
     
  6. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Steve, I've got a puzzle at the discography that I can't solve. Maybe you can answer my question. Owen Bradley made vocal overdubs for 3 Patsy Cline singles in 1959/1960. He was using 3-track tape but the overdubs are mono mixes. When the songs were issued on LP the stereo mixes didn't have the overdubs.

    I assume he made a new tape for the harmony overdubs, mixed to mono. Why not record Patsy's vocal phantom center in the first 2 tracks and then use the 3rd for the overdub so that it would be on the stereo mix?

    Does it have to do with the mixing board he was using? Is it possible the inputs had to be mixed hard left or hard right, and could that be the reason?
     
  7. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    And before tape, disc to disc overdubs. Example, many an early Les Paul & Mary Ford and Patti Page tune.
     
    Shak Cohen and .crystalised. like this.
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    I don't know the songs but Bradley only had one Ampex three-track machine. Her harmony vocal would have been overdubbed during mixing to mono AND stereo. You sure they aren't on the stereo mixes as well? Pretty sure they would be.
     
  9. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Definitely not on the stereo. Is there some way I could get you clips for comparison? I could definitely use an industry ear for assistance.
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Well, what stereo are you talking about? Did they remix the stereo from the three track or did they unearth the actual stereo "7" mixes from back in the day? They were stored in a special spot and perhaps the vault people couldn't find them?
     
  11. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    What are stereo "7" mixes? Are you referring to the Decca catalogue prefix?
     
  12. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Steve,

    For comparison:

    Mono mix (45 single):

    Stereo mix (LP): http://youtu.be/Q1BZ8zIYWhI

    The single was issued the year the song was recorded in 1959. The song appeared on a Vocalion (Decca) LP in 1965 in that stereo mix without harmony.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Yes, but added to the matrix number, not the MG number.
     
  14. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    The Nashville matrix or the NY matrix?
     
  15. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Also, from what I can tell, Bradley got his first 3 track machine in May 1958. When did Chet Atkins get his?
     
  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    March, 1958 at Decca/Bradley.

    No idea about RCA, way after that, wasn't it?

    Only one matrix number was assigned to a Decca record.
     
  17. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Date: January 9, 1959 [14:00-17:00]

    Location: Bradley Film and Recording Studios, 804 16th Avenue South, Nashville TN.

    Label: 4 Star Records

    Owen Bradley (pdr), Patsy Cline (v), The Jordanaires (bkv, hnd), Hank Garland, Grady Martin (eg), Floyd Cramer (p), Bob Moore (b), Harold Bradley (ebx), Farris Coursey (d)

    a.106455 Yes, I Understand - 2:52 (Buster Beam, Lawton Jiles, W.S. Stevenson)

    I've used the corporate matrix numbers on the discography. For this performance, it's 106455, but it was also designated NA10557. Why the duplication?
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Those NA numbers are meaningless. Ignore them or you will just confuse people. They were internal numbers, ignored in NY. The matrix number is the matrix number. If there is a "7" before it, the stereo tape was stored with the singles tapes. Nothing to do with Vocalion/Decca/Coral/Brunswick microgroove number reels. The editior might not have realized there WAS a single stereo version with two vocals and just remixed the three track for the cheapo Vocalion release.

    Am I answering your question? Not sure! Ask again if I'm not getting it..
     
    .crystalised. likes this.
  19. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    A few months, at least. Don Gibson's first session in stereo was June 24, 1958. Starting with "Taller Than Trees".

    But, Atkins may have had only a 2 track machine. Gibson's vocal is hard left during at least the first year of his stereo masters.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    That stuff is two-track. Three-track and Bill Porter came much later.
     
    .crystalised. likes this.
  21. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    That's what I thought. I've been told that Bradley's first stereo machine was 3-track but Atkins was 2? Why is it that vocals couldn't be mixed phantom center on 2 track?
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    Because before Bill Porter they didn't do it that way. Just a work part, not a "grand stereo" recording. Not given much thought, or much priority.

    I could write pages on this subject..
     
    .crystalised. likes this.
  23. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    I think you answered my question! Combine the fact the budget LP was issued 5 years after the single (that wasn't a hit and so everybody forgot about it), with the idea that the vault runners couldn't find the right tape (possible, especially given the 4 Star licensing/distribution deal with Decca for early Patsy material) and there is a recipe for confusion. Thanks, Steve!
     
  24. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    Porter definitely helped shape Atkins' sound. The two of them together made some legendary records.
     
  25. .crystalised.

    .crystalised. Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Edmonton
    I would read your pages :)
     
    Nate-O-Phonic likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine