Me too using white vinegar as Citranox not easily available in Italy. I add Polysorbate 20 as a surfactant for the same reason....despite some problem I was able to source everything and got outstanding results. I'd like to publicy thank Neil for sharing with us in the book all his expertise and deep knowledge and for partecipating in this forum (as well as a lot of other knowledgeable people). I must say, having interacted with Neil by private messages too, he's also an huge patience!!! regards Paolo
According Neil's book "liquid, machine clothes detergent that is not colored (no dyes), unscented (no fragrance) and contains no anti-bacterial agents. These will also have enzymes that can be beneficial for the removal of certain types of soils " so I found one of these, actually one used to wash newborn clothes. After the direct contact I mentioned above Neil pointed me the following: https://www.ecover.com/de/produkte/fluessigwaschmittel/woll-und-feinwaschmittel/ Available in EU and in Italy. Regards Paolo
That's the wrong one. You want the Zero variant: Woll- und Feinwaschmittel ZERO - Ecover DE or this if you're in the UK: ZERO Laundry Liquid | Fragrance Free | Ecover
Excellent. I did end up buying some Vinyl Clear Concentrate as suggested in the document but the Ecover is much cheaper. I will make a note of it.
Yeah! You're absolutely right. That 's the right one. Too many products in that site and too hard linking by smartphone. Thanks Paolo
Hope they will not realize we use it for vinyl cleaning otherwise we'll see a tenfold increase of the price!
You should be able to purchase Citranox from Alconox Citranox 1801-1 Liquid Acid Cleaner and Detergent; 1 gal. Bottle from Cole-Parmer United Kingdom (coleparmer.co.uk) but they only sell 1-gallon bottle, but they show it in stock. They also sell Liquinox in 1-quart bottle - Alconox Liquinox 1232-1 Critical Cleaning Liquid Detergent; 1 QT Bottle from Cole-Parmer United Kingdom (coleparmer.co.uk) but they show a 14-day delay.
I received my bottle of Vinyl Clear Concentrate today. I don't have great expectations, it appears to mostly be alcohol and a smidge of detergent. It barely foams when I shake the bottle. A local store has Ecover Zero in stock so I'm going to go buy some later. I'll do some testing later this evening.
I made the Vinyl Clear mix and it actually foams quite well. Must have been the high alcohol content suppressing the bubbles in the concentrate form. I've also bought some Ecover Zero and made a mix with that so I'll do some comparisons.
After some digging, I did just find a safety data sheet (SDS) for the VinylClear - Microsoft Word - Vinylclear Kit B009GJEAZW MSDS 2016.docx (shopify.com). Assuming this is current, for the ready to use, it's not much of a cleaner. Its 88% water, 11.2% alcohol (both isopropanol and ethanol) and the 0.8% (~8000 ppm) Ethane-1,2-DIOL is just Ethylene Glycol. Also, the Flashpoint of the product with 11.2% alcohol is much less than 95C, closer to 40C. Unless there is something else in the VinylClear, or they have since reformulated, the Ecover Zero should be far superior as a pre-cleaner; it has the big hitter detergent anionic surfactants along with the wetting/emulsifying non-ionic surfactants. If the book is ever revised, the recommendation for VinylClear as pre-cleaner will be deleted.
That's a shame, it cost a few pennies, I'll keep it around as a backup. I have a quick question for you, does isopropyl alcohol truly leave no residue? For a long time I mixed it with distilled water as a rinse and I had trouble with water spots (after air drying) that smear when you wipe them. This evening I tried a final rinse with just purified water (following your guide) and I'm not seeing as much residue in the deadwax.
Unfortunately a few problematic records withstood the full process. I'm not totally surprised as I'd already cleaned them in a similar fashion, just lacking the proper chemistry. Some records are just born bad I think. I don't see how the noise that remains can be dirt...I need to invest in some magnification. It did noticeably clean up an old Queen album that I bought today. And I still have another dozen or so records that I'd like to put through the gauntlet. The testing continues.
Yes and No. See the book, Chapter VIII, Table VIII. Standard pharmaceutical (UPS) has fairly high residue. To get a no residue IPA, you need to buy reagent grade, but be careful of wild claims on Amazon & eBay. If it is truly reagent grade they will have a certificate of analysis (COA) or at least certificate of conformance. See the book, Chapter IV Section IV.10. Records that have been precision cleaned can still sound – for want of a better term – bad; clicks, pops, hiss, and distortion. There are any number of reasons such as following, but no amount of cleaning is going to fix these physical defects. There is a list of six basic reasons, and there are others.
The Allsop Orbrtrac3 cleaning solution apparently includes 2-butoxyethanol, and I've read warnings about this stuff but it is apparently still fairly frequently found in some household products in the U.S., maybe less-so elsewhere. But I was wondering, does 2-butoxyethanol leave any residue? Oh and thank you, hope you're doing well.
Phil: 2-butoxyethanol was at one time a very commonly used water-soluble hydrocarbon solvent; and fairly aggressive against oils. But it has been shown to be fairly toxic and residential product use is no longer very frequent - GHS 2-Butoxyethanol MSDS.pdf (parchem.com). Will it leave residue - Yes - its boiling point is about 340F. Take care, Neil
How to verify cleaniness of grooves visually? Are USB microscopes selling online good for that or not enough resolution/magnification? Thanks Paolo
No. There are industrial digital microscopes that have very high magnification >5000X but they are way outside the consumer's budget, and you need a very stable base to get clear images - https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/.downloads/download/?file=285216326&fl=en_US&inline, and you would be looking at only a very small area at any time. Otherwise, Chapter XI of the book is a detailed analysis of how clean the process should achieve and then goes on to detail how clean do you want the record to be for maximum playback fidelity. However, Chapter XI is very technical.
Thanks a lot, I was expecting it would be quite strange we can do it with a $30 device from Amazon or eBay!!!! Paolo
I spent a little time experimenting with a 1000x scope while cleaning... taking a look at the surface at each stage of the process. Couldn't draw any useful conclusions beyond the fact that the surface of the record looked clean afterwards. There was no useful insight into what was happening on the grooves at that magnification beyond the removal of the largest bits of crud.
Yes, visual grade NM, but garbage sound. Which was when I concluded the scope couldn't be used in any meaningful way. Garbage from pressing, not dirt, but you cannot see/tell until you play.
Neil, thanks so much for all the work put into this book! I have the Liquinox on order, and am holding off on the Citranox (for now) to see if the acid will be needed much, if at all. When doing the Liquinox step, is there a optimal amount of time for soaking this solution on the record surface before using the brush? Somewhere in this long thread IIRC there was the max time of 15 mins per side, but that total time is usually about 5-6 mins, including the brushing? Also, reference 17.1, and the plastic bowl/cup for holding the label protector during cleaning...what exactly are you using? Note I am currently using a Disco Antistat RLP (the one with the handle on one side) so fitting is probably going to be an issue. Is there a work-around to avoid spending $50 on a Groovemaster RLP just to solve that problem? I am thinking about cutting a plastic gallon milk jug.
Look at Figure 6 - that is basic manual process, there is no soak for Liquinox, and you are omitting the Citranox (acid) step. However, note that you can substitute distilled white vinegar in place of Citranox prepared as described bottom of Page 24 - AU/EU/UK Prepare the ACID Spray (or Wash) Bottles: Otherwise, the soak addressed Step 17 is for acid, and you would use this if after completing the basic manual process the record was still noisy. The plastic bowl/cup is nothing more than an empty yogurt container with the lid off, so the record label protector rests on the container edge with its knob inside the container. Any similar arrangement will work. You are just trying to get the record resting flat with the record label protector. As far as a record label protector, as I say top of Page 32 There are cheaper knock-offs of the USA-Made Groovemaster™ RLP; they are not the same. The Groovemaster™ RLP discs are as much as three times thicker. If you search Amazon 'record label protector' you will find them; I make no recommendations. Good Luck, Neil
I see now that is a yogurt container in the photo. I will try distilled white vinegar with NID to include the acid wash step. Appreciate the help.
