Pro-Ject Debut Carbon: Hum Fixed?

Congrats and many hours of enjoyment! - Question - in the site (at least as it is shown to me in America) and in a post above from another forum member in here, I see it is provided with a Sumiko cart - I also see you have a 2M Red - did you get it with the table or was this something you replaced?

Thnx!

v

 

Sumiko in the U.S., Ortofon in Europa.

 

The only downer I found with the Pioneer is noise with MC cartridges though it doesn't affect music. Also some might not like the lift off rather than hinged cover. It's certainly massively built compared with a Project and the platter is covered with damping underneath. Also easy to change cartridges. Don't think there is a white version?

 

Enjoy, Black is only available at the moment here, otherwise I would have got the blue, I found my tracking force gauge very handy as I was off a bit on tracking force. I think I was rotating entire weight not just dial and make sure the little weight is on the second notch.

 

I almost cancelled my pre-order and was going to get whatever the shop had in stock (black, red, white) when I saw that the TT was available in those colors as my Blue was still in pre-order land. Just before I called, I got an email saying that my order had shipped

I don't have a force gauge but I can imagine it would be very useful. One of those things I'll buy in the future. I chose to follow the manual vs. the interweb videos since the US version has a heavier cartridge and set the counterweight to 20 (per the manual) and put the string for the anti skate weight on line #3 (again, per the manual).

I switched records and noticed that the anti-skate string had fallen off the arm and the weight was laying on the plinth. I reattached it and things are good so far. Right now the clear string seems to be barely hanging on for dear life in any slot that I put it in. It is not fully in the groove. I will probably slide the metal hanging arm thingy to the left a bit tomorrow to try to prevent that in the future.

Regardless, I am really enjoying this

 

My gauge cost 10 euros on Amazon and is totally accurate I checked it with other predifined weight's, there's a video from a few weeks ago where the guy addresses the counterweight thing and says 2nd notch, and on the quick setup quide with deck it says 2nd notch.

 

It's 7.15 or so on the above video where he says 2nd groove on post, and in setup guide I have, this guide is for Ortofon but in video he says 2nd notch for Sumiko too, I track at 1.8 for Ortofon

 

Hmmh yes, I've heard about issues with MC on the PLX-1000 before...
I don't know about it myself, because back when I had a PLX-1000, I didn't have any MC carts.

 

Ah thanks - it seems that at least for the US there is a relationship with Sumiko - they weird thing is that if you click on the different turntables, for the ones that have a choice of colors and include a cart, you can see a combination - some show a Sumiko, others show an Ortofon - guess they haven't updated the site - OR they are running a new promotion - "CARTRIDGE SURPRISE!" - just order and see what you get! it comes with a Cartridge Reveal Party Kit!

v

 

Yep, I don’t think the Pioneer comes in white.

Regarding the Denon DP-400, I didn’t think it was as well thought of as the Pro-ject Debut. Is that not right?

 

I don't think it is as popular. It also has a built in phono section which looks like it can be switched off but if you don't need one I think it's best to avoid that.

 

I am a long time lurker - this forum seems to have the most polite and thoughtful headed posters of the forums -- at least for audiophiles... .

Thanks for those photos and reviews of the Carbon Evo!

I don't want to hijack the thread but I am looking at this exact Blue Carbon Evo vs. a Planar 2 or a used Planar 25. The Planar 25 would be $500 with no cartridge.

The Evo is the easiest - the dealer is two doors down and would be responsive. The Planar 2 is $200 more. The Planar 25 is sold by a pretty well known shop so not too risky but of course no guarantees. I am not a very handy with making adjustments. I could also upgrade the cartridge on my 80s Kenwood KD 52R, But I am thinking of moving it to the bedroom because again, I am not very handy.

BTW, I have a hearing disability and am pretty sensitive to brightness. Looking for full sound at the expense of detailed. Speakers are Quad 21L2s. Any thoughts appreciated!

 

Actually the Planar 2 is 50 Euros cheaper than the Evo in Dublin, I considered it but decided on the Evo. The cartridge upgrade path being easier, the adjustable legs and the easy speed change is what sold me, I love it so far, the sound reproduction is v dynamic to my ears, when I get good use out of the red I'll get the Ortofon blue stylus, in the States the stock Evo cartridge is better than the red I heard, so far I have zero complaints. Regarding your hearing disability I don't have an answer as to what would suit. This is my v modest setup, Onkyo 9010 UK amp, Q Acoustics 3020i speakers and a Project mm preamp, total cost about 1200 euros and I'm v happy with it.

 

Hi Techno,

Thanks for the helpful feedback, er hum, er, response. That is fascinating that the two brands have such different pricing in the two countries. Is this some strange VAT or import thing or does Planar see that Americans will assume a more expensive TT is a better TT?
I heard a Carbon Debut Espirit and dynamic is definitely a word for it. Also, detail. But I am hoping the Sumiko cartridge that is stock here will make it a bit warmer.

Funny, but have been thinking about Q Acoustics for my second system. Those are great looking speakers.

 

I bought a Rainier for my son's original Carbon last Xmas and we had it at our house for a couple of days. I would describe it as providing instant relief (from what I thought was perhaps upper-mid, lower treble emphasis on the Ortofon) and very musical. I've always liked my own two Grados, but I was wishing I had a Rainier after he went back home.

 

Hi Speed, ( I remember your brother, Mercury Morris.)

Funny, but I read your thoughts about the Rainier in a different thread and it is one big reason why I waited to order an EVO to Demo.

I demoed the Project Carbon Evo and a Planar 2. The Evo had more detail and dynamism; the Planar was warmer and fuller. I don't think it was the cartridge - the consensus is that the Rainier and Carbon are not that different from each other; neither is detailed and analytical.

The sales guy (at a very high end shop) much preferred the Evo, saying, "ah, this is music - now I hear those cymbals!" But for me the really high notes on Miles trumpet on Kind of Blue and the forward sax on Big Man's solo on Jungleland bothered me due to me hearing problem. The Rega seemed to just barely cut those off so it did not bother me.

So horses for courses. I am going to order the Planar 2. Thanks for all the help here.

 

The answer to your question is absolutely NO, it has never been solved, they said the new DC motor would do the trick, but it's not really a DC motor, it's still an AC motor, so absolutely NOT, they are terrible tables. I should also mention it's not really a hum as we think of a 60 Hz hum, it's more of a buzz and it's at about 120 Hz, not 60 Hz. Watch this short video!



Now that you have actually heard what the 120 Hz buzz sound like and when it happens, here is a way to stop "some" of it, not all, but it reduces the annoying hum a little, if you are willing to cut you humming carbon in a few pieces and put in about 30 hours of work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1bZ55iVDI&t=111s

 

I took out the mounting screws and replaced them with a bit of foam cushioning and the hum went away, never to return.

The Debut Carbon is a fantastic tt for the money.

 

You know that is a very old fix. Some people called them shipping screws and I think the design on that motor changed slightly. You are very fortunate to get your buzz out, most people cannot and they exhaust hours and days working on their turntables.
If you did not know, the hum that plagues the humming carbon is only heard when the stylus is let down on the record, and between tracks, so make sure you have solved that. I hope you watched the first video of the man with the green carbon. His problem is the primary problem with the carbons, you will note the 120 Hz buzz the second the stylus hits the lead in grooves. If your carbon does not buzz when the stylus hits the lead in groove with the motor turning, you do indeed have the problem solved, my congratulations to you, few solve the problem.

 

You are wrong! The answer is yes it's been solved, I have the Debut carbon evo there is no hum, zero, zilch!!!

 

This is truly bizarre. I have a Pro-ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, and mine doesn't have (and has never had) that same high frequency hum.
Or any kind of hum.
And I bought the table six years ago.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the power in the US VS the UK (where I am currently)?

 

Maybe these people don't know how to properly ground (or earth) their turntables, its bizzare.

 

I've wondered that as there doesn't appear to be many complaints here in the UK.

 

I would think twice about buying equipment in white. In my experience something always becomes discoloured after a while.

 

The common complaint with the Debut series is not a grounding issue. It’s motor vibration. That’s why people are doing things like removing screws or adding pads. Pro-Ject themselves changed the design similarly from the Debut III to the Carbon. With the Debut III, there was an instruction to remove two screws that secure the motor flanges, so the motor is suspended by an O-ring. With the Carbon, there are polymer pads under the motor flanges and there is no instruction to remove the screws.