PVC in Record Shrinkwrap?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Leonthepro, Aug 6, 2022.

  1. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sweden
    Came across someone claiming shrinkwrap can damage covers and records just like those cloudy stiff PVC sleeves that we all avoid.
    I asked how come old records in the shrink never seem to have an issue like that but with no good answer.

    Anyone able to shed more light on this? Is it a bad idea to keep the shrinkwrap?
     
  2. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    these days (but really since the 80s I think), most records if shrinkwrapped use a polyolefin type wrap. It is stable and doesn't hurt records. It remains flexible for years.

    You do want to remove PVC type shrinkwrapping. It is usually more rigid than than polyolefin. Theoretically it can damage records, but I don't think it has as much plasticizer as the thick PVC sleeves that are terrible. My advice is to remove any shrink that is that type, or more like cellophane (mor rigid and crinkly) -- it can also stick to the cover after a while

    What Type of Plastic is Shrink Wrap?
     
  3. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sweden
    Hmm, interesting. But it makes me wonder if Ive encountered these PVC shrinkwraps, all of the ones I recall seemed quite soft and flexible.
    Is it a subtle difference?

    But its generally not a worry then?
     
  4. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    I think the bigger risk is record warping as many are on so darn tight
     
    Satrus, WhatDoIKnow, GyroT and 3 others like this.
  5. WDeranged

    WDeranged Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The only issue I've noticed is creasing of the covers because the stuff is too damn tight.
     
  6. jim249

    jim249 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boise, ID, USA
    I have records from the 60's still in shrink and many from the 70's still sealed. I have seen no problems with shrinkage or damage at all.
     
  7. MrRom92

    MrRom92 Forum Supermodel

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Not even all PVC outers will age the same way, or at the same rate - but how can you tell the good ones from the bad?

    the bad ones almost always have a discolored appearance, or go stiff, etc. but by that point, it’s too late.


    Theoretically it’s totally possible that a record can react to offgassing shrinkwrap just the same way it would with a badly offgassing PVC outer sleeve, but I haven’t seen it happen yet. Might reveal itself to be more of a problem in 40 years, you never know.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  8. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I still have some very old sealed records and many where I've cut the edge but left the shrink wrap. Never a problem in those lines however it is possible for the record to become warped because the tight shrink wrap. I don't do it unless I see an obvious problem but taking it off as soon as possible is probably best for the record. Creasing of the covers -as mentioned by another poster- is another problem I have experienced.
     
    wvsteveo and WDeranged like this.
  9. punkmusick

    punkmusick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    What damage will cloudy stiff PVC sleeves cause?
     
  10. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sweden
    Permanent noise on records or gluing to the sleeve.
     
  11. punkmusick

    punkmusick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    Inner sleeves cause permanent noise on records you mean, right? Outer might glue to the sleeve, or inner?
     
  12. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sweden
    No outers, they "outgas" their plastic which gets on the vinyl like a film which causes lots of noise and you cant get rid of.
     
  13. punkmusick

    punkmusick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    No outers? Sorry, I don't understand. Outgas I can't understand too.
     
  14. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Yah, I have a lot of records in shrink, old, and nary a problem. I'm aware of PVC- usually thicker, right? Smells like plastic if warm. I looked at the same sources as @sublemon - said PVC is no longer used for shrink. But some of the stuff I have is old. And not a problem. I guess if you have a "plasticy" jacket or "shrink" remove it (unless you want to keep the record sealed). I usually stick the jackets in a mylar like jacket protector anyway, but I also keep the shrink many times because of price stickers or other stuff that is part of the "artifact." So far, I haven't had a problem. Although after that thing a few years ago about PVC jackets-- this had to be before 2017- there was a big thread on bag rash, weird white shadows on records, and PVC-- I purged anything that resembled an old fashioned heavy duty library type outer sleeve. Those are bad. Especially with heat. There is a fair amount out there on the topic, including on Discogs, believe it or not.
     
    groovelocked likes this.
  15. FJC1966

    FJC1966 The Prestonian

    Location:
    Lancashire, U.K.
    As someone who supplied plastics to the main CD and Record Pressing and Packing Plants back in the day, I can confirm the post as quoted - CD packaging mainly used/uses PVC wrap that is folded around the jewel case and heat sealed to the edges - rather like a neat Xmas present (but has been known to use heat activated shrink wrap) and most all LPs use shrink wrap that's Polyolefins based LLDPE sealed along one leading edge using a combination heat tunnel and hot band sealer....
     
  16. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I have come across a few with this stiffer shrink. It goes brittle but rips and starts to fall off before any damage to records is done in my experience. None of the main labels use it these days.
     
  17. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    I have removed all of the shrink-wrap from my records from the early 70's on. The people that say they have observed no damage to their LPs are quite lucky IMHO. Probably 500 of my LPs were purchase inn the 70's. The 70's were the birth of some ridiculously thin pressings. I have had some records warp in addition to frequent jacket damage due to overly tight shrink. I removed all the shrink from all my LPs that still had it in 1974. This after buying an LP that was so tightly shrink-wrapped I had difficultly finding a spot to cut into the shrink. Even with a razor knife, the slit in the jacket was almost invisible to the eye and impenetrable. Two jacket corners were crushed and the other two had folds.The RCA "Dynawarp" pressing was so warped it was totally unplayable, I didn't even bother trying.

    These days all incoming records have any shrink wrap removed, the hype stickers are saved and attached to the inners. The record is ultrasonically cleaned and receives new anti-static rice paper inners, if and as needed, (VSS 2 mil) and new outers (4 mil crystal clear CPP outers from VSS).
     
    Lenny99 likes this.
  18. punkmusick

    punkmusick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    Can someone please educate me about these "cloudy stiff PVC sleeves" that you all avoid but I don't?
    How stiff and cloudy they must be to cause damage?
    I think I have MANY of my albums inside this kind of sleeves and now I'm panicking.
    Sorry to go out of topic but if someone can link me to maybe another thread where this was discussed, or some other link, or maybe some pictures so I can understand what are you talking about?

    EDIT:
    I did some research and understood the issue. I'm not sure I have many albums on PVC. If I understand correctly, PVC sleeves are just those really thick and heavy ones that come with Picture Discs, is that right? Not the ones you usually see in record stores? Could someone please provide pictures of the dangerous ones? Are only those of the picture below I should avoid?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
    Leonthepro likes this.
  19. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Thread Starter

    Location:
    Sweden
    Forgot the comma. I meant outer sleeves yes.

    Yes like the ones below, blurry, hard or stiff and they usually smell a bit if you put your nose in one.

    It doesnt always happen, you need the right heat or humidity for it to start to break down and release gases.
     
    punkmusick likes this.
  20. jim249

    jim249 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boise, ID, USA
    The only problems I have seen with the cloudy look to records has come from some paper sleeves. The worst are from UA in the early 70's. It doesn't affect play, it just looks bad.
     
  21. punkmusick

    punkmusick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    Thanks. I actually had just a handful of records in PVC sleeves luckily. Got rid of those sleeves now.

    About shrinkwrap I don't know. I used to cut just the side of them to let the record out and keep them, but later I decided I wanted to look at the sleeves without wraps, so got rid of all. However, I keep all stickers too, I cut them off and put them inside the cover.

    However I keep a few sealed records as back ups, so I'm interested in the subject.
     
    Leonthepro likes this.
  22. rodentdog

    rodentdog Forum Resident

    I used to sell shrink packaging systems and films in greater LA back in the 70's and 80's. The vast majority of the film used for phonograph records was polyolefin, either DuPont Clysar® or Cryovac D film. The big guys used specialty automatic wrapping systems, the smaller guys used regular automatic wrapping systems. Some smaller guys did use actual PVC films to wrap, generally Reynolon® film. PVC is undesirable for several reasons...it cost more per unit, and as part of the sealing process, produces a chlorine gas, not good for the operator and definitely not good for the sealing equipment. More than you ever wanted to know.
     
    black sheriff and Lenny99 like this.
  23. Lenny99

    Lenny99 The truth sets you free.

    Location:
    Clarksburg WV
    I remember this subject coming up years ago, in the 80s. I was taught to remove shrink wrap or it could cause vinyl to warp.
     
    WDeranged likes this.
  24. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident

    It was some of the same thing in the 70's. Then as now, people came down on both sides of the issue. I do remember seeing articles on the topic of shrink wrap on LPs appearing in the various mags of the time: High Fidelity, Stereo Review, Audio...Back in '74 when I got rid of all the shrink wrap on my existing LPs, I remember having very mixed feelings. I had been so careful to open my LPs carefully to preserve the shrink wrap. I used to carry a little pocket knife just to split the seams of albums open. Sometimes the shrink wrap was so tight you could use your fingernail to open it-still true today. It used to upset me when the shrink wrap on an LP started to tear and I eventually had to remove it. But when I had issues with warping, I decided the shrink wrap was a bad thing and I should remove it. Suddenly I was faced with unprotected album jackets. I can't remember why, but outer sleeves just weren't on my radar then. I was a student so it was probably price. I certainly don't remember many people under 30 having their records in outer sleeves.

    It's a funny coincidence writing about this topic today. You see today I will take delivery on a final batch of some specialized outer sleeves from Vinyl Storage Solutions. After 50 years all of my LPs (except box sets) will be in appropriate sleeves. It has been a 4 month long project to finally get my the more specialized jackets properly protected. The gatefolds all now housed in the VSS 4 mil gatefold sleeves, and the tri-folds and quad folds in VSS 13"x 13" oversized sleeves. The single LPs are already in 4 mil MoFi archival outer sleeves since 4 years ago. I will add that in light of the MoFi debacle, I may still buy their LPs on a case by case basis. But I will no longer buy MoFi inner or outer sleeves. To further stray a bit off topic, I will only buy from Music Direct if, and only if, they are the only ones carrying a product. But to get back on topic: I am pleased to say after nearly 50 years all of my LPs that have been without the protection of shrink wrap will now be protected with appropriate sized outer sleeves.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
    GyroSE likes this.
  25. punkmusick

    punkmusick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    Are outer sleeves needed if you keep the records vertically on a shelf which is closed in the back so no dust inside the jackets, records not too tight, and hand them carefully?
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine