SH Spotlight RAY CHARLES ABC-Paramount "Modern Sounds In Country & Western Music" cutting history, 1962 to 1968

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Quite a contrast. That's just Bill Putnam's personal style. Listen to his work on the earlier Ray stuff (like "Ruby", etc.). Exact same sound: Giant reverb, several chambers on music, vocals. Chamber echo compressed by LA 2A's before hitting the console. Big trick of his. Plus his patented "behind a curtain" vocal group with full compression.

    Also, because I'm a total ****ing nerd, I once asked about Ray's vocal microphone on I CAN'T STOP LOVING YOU and the other United sides and Ray told me personally that Bill Putnam chose the cheapest of the cheap microphones in the closet because anything better picked up too much of the surrounding musicians and singers. Played through the midrangy playback speakers at United it probably sounded OK but it's a unique sound.

    On the second album the late Al Schmitt didn't follow any of Bill's rules and those songs ("Your Cheating Heart" etc.) sound different, much less compression, better tone, better stereo, etc.

    However, the sound of United is still there. Not everyone's cup of tea but Ray himself loved. That's why he kept going back there until he built his own room. And then he designed it just like United.

    Sid Feller told me that Bill Putnam mixed right to the mono, stereo and three track machines just like at Capitol in New York, with the result that the sound is very constant be it mono or stereo.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No one was as surprised as producer Sid Feller when the album broke big. Hell, he buried "I CAN'T STOP LOVING YOU" on the back side near the end.

    I was asked about the Jukebox stereo ABC-Paramount records. As far as I can tell, all were just duped from the stereo album reels.

    BUT, and this is a big but, the Jukebox Stereo version of "I Can't Stop Loving You" was a remix by Bill Putnam about a week later. Of course a remix is going to sound almost the same due to the constant of Bill's engineering style. Still, I thought I'd mention it. Never heard it myself, I don't think.. Or if I did, I didn't hear any difference.

    So that makes it, original stereo mix of I CAN'T STOP..., second stereo mix for Jukebox 45, mono LP mix, mono 45 mix which is an edited dupe of the mono LP master with a minute cut out of it.
     
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  3. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    If one wanted an ABC best of collection on vinyl of this terrific period, I would head straight for this double set of 24 songs. Good fidelity and mastering, none of the added reverb that the other set previously mentioned has, and this is loaded up with linter notes and photo pages. Said to be a "limited edition" set, which might have meant limited until it stalls out at retail. After reading this thread again today, I pulled this off the shelf to see if it still rocks my world like it did 25 years ago. Still wonderful, but I would prefer the track "Unchain My Heart" to not be placed at the end of a side being a loud one with horns 'o fire!

    Ray Charles - A Man And His Soul
     
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  4. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Side two is my favorite. I prefer it in Stereo over the mono. Side One has several tracks I love. I need to replace my copy. I've worn out 5 through the years. Anybody have a spare in nice condition?
     
  5. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Vinyl only. The last one may have had a very early CD available. Buy a good turntable/tonearm/cartridge.
     
  6. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    That set is very good. But remember pressing quality from ABC in that era varied wildly from dreck to excellent.
     
  7. WMTC

    WMTC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    I'm curious about something - I could swear I read somewhere on this forum that Bell Sound usually made a dub of everything and labeled that dub "Master," shelving the original, actual master tape. It sounds like that's not what happened here and that they cut from the original master. Am I correct in finding that unusual or am I mis-remembering the dubbing policy?

    Either way, this is a fantastic album with great sound, too!
     
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    As I mentioned above, yes. A rare thing.
     
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  9. WMTC

    WMTC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    Thanks for the confirmation, Steve! Much appreciated! And thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with all of us on this wonderful forum. Truly the best place for a music nerd to hang out:D
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    You're welcome!
     
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  11. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Steve, I've heard the Jukebox 33 1/3 of "I Can't Stop Loving You". It has lower volume, is more midrangy, slightly more trebly and bass light than ABC-S 410 is in any good period pressing. Similar tonality, but more narrowed Stereo separation. A/B compared on two identically equipped AR-XA turntables, same cartridges at "The Music Box" in Oak Ridge, TN when still in business. Same Shure M75 EJ cartridges. Tracking 1.75 grams. Same Pioneer SX 626 receiver, EV Sixes. Bill Pollock, the owner level matched the two for me.
     
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  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That's probably just a mastering choice. I'm sure if there was a separate mix, Bill Putnam just duplicated what he had done before.
     
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  13. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    I suspect you're right. I suspect the remix happened due to Jukebox Little LP needs. And given extra audio processing to help obviate the limitations of Seeburg and other 33 1/3 RPM capable Stereo jukeboxes. Seeburg may have had some say in this aspect. The narrowing of Stereo separation also likely was done to make the material sound better on mono extension speakers, or remote wallboxes in diners.
     
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  14. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    The Mono LP discs, and the 45 RPM singles did get that mastering style in the Bell Sound traditional way. I have heard several different masterings on 45 of "I Can't Stop Loving You". The second and third 45 RPM ABC-Paramounts sounded best to my ear. I've heard every ABC-Paramount and ABC 45 release ever done of this, a few from different pressing plants. I know this LP extremely well, to a fault. This is one of my favorite LP discs ever.

    My late Grandmother owned an early mono ABC-410, bought new before I was born. we later replaced it with a ABC-S 410 when our old Zenith phono got upgraded with a Stereo capable arm with a more compliant ceramic cartridge, then a last one when our house had the 1968 electrical fire. When we got the house repaired and rewired, and livable, the 1967 Philco-Ford console got repaired, and we got an ABC Stereo pressing to replace it, one of my Christmas gifts when we moved back in at 359 Glascock Street in Alcoa, that LP followed my late Grandmother to Athens, replaced it several years ago when I was living by myself in Athens. That copy was noisy when I got it. Hope to replace it with a period copy in better condition.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2023
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yeah, their mastering at Bell evolved through the months, depending on who was at the controls. Different compression ratios, different midrange bumpies, etc. I remember seeing some Bell Sound notes for something else I worked on a long time ago and the first cutting was adding a 5 db boost at 1k, second cutting added a boost at 3,o00, and third cut added the boost at 5k. I guess they couldn't decide which bumpie sounded best to them.
     
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  16. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @McLover, of course, the lesson I learned about this was that to the engineers of the day, nothing over 5k seemed to matter, or anything under 50 cycles.

    As I'm sure I've mentioned before, the RCA-Victor three knob EQ unit had:

    Bass meant boost or cut at 100 cycles.
    Midrange meant boost or cut at 1,000 cycles.
    Treble meant boost or cut at 5,000.

    Yikes, eh? Anything above or below was just gravy. Yet, some of those RCA-Victor Living Stereo cuttings are the best sounding records ever made.. So there ya go.. Probably just as well that they didn't touch the actual top end or low bass. That just slipped through, probably unheard, slumbering until us audio nuts got gear good enough to hear it 60 years later!
     
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  17. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Sounds like the same frequency response as the old "telco" sound of network TV feeds prior to January-February 1978, no?
     
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  18. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Yes, it does. And Radio didn't get any better. The further away from origination, the worse the audio degraded.
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, the broadcast "coax sound" had NOTHING above like 5k. Dreadful sounding, but the recording studios just cared about 100, 1k, 5k. They didn't filter anything higher or lower, those frequencies just slipped through, right to us on our modern gear.

    The radio networks (and later, the TV versions) couldn't help how the network sound was broadcast out in those days. I'm sure they wanted it better but it was all they could do.

    I remember hearing a 16" lacquer of a real 1945 radio aircheck from the CONSOLE instead of the network feed and was shocked at how good it sounded.
     
  20. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    I can imagine the difference. I've been on both sides of the TV spectrum - production end and as a TV watcher - myself, and can attest.
     
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  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The old Longwear building. Looks like crap but some great pressings came out of there..
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Still correct info..
     
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