[Recommendation needed] Tube amp for Harbeth 30.2

Hello, folks.
I am in search of a tube amp for my new Harbeth 30.2. I usually listen to acoustic jazz (ECM, jazz piano trio).

I used to have a Harbeth C7es3 along with Accuphase E-600 integrated amp, and I loved it.
However I came across the new Harbeth 30.2 at an audio show, and fell in love with the sound of the speaker that was paired with Vincent SV-237MK (was playing a violin concerto). So I sold my C7ES3 and bought a pair of Harbeth 30.2

But I found that Accuphase E600 is not powerful enough to drive Harbeth 30.2. Piano sound is not crystal clear but sounds thin. I googled about this subject and found that Harbeth Monitor series (30.x, 40.x) is harder to drive, and made for studio sound reproduction not for home use (I felt that C7ES3 has lot more air in the sound).

And suggestion for best tube amp for Harbeth 30.2?
Here's my list of candidates

- Yoshino EAR V12
- Vincent SV700
- Prima Luna Dialogue Premium HP
- McIntosh MA252
- Vinnie Rossi Lio

Or should I go back to C7ES3 or SHL5?
thanks in advance.

 

Hi - nice speakers. I think they are actually not that bad a load to drive - Think they were tested at around 87.5db/w with a fairly smooth impedance curve. I would rule out the Vinnie on output power though - its just too low. The Vincent and Mcintosh are higher powered hybrid amps so will produce more drive and higher volumes with less distortion. Might be worth reading the Stereophile review if you haven't already. Interesting they tried the Bel Canto Ref amps which are Class D based amps ( albeit power amps as opposed to your list ), they are based on Hypex N core output modules which are excellent. The Vincent amps are rebadged Shengya designs. Personally I would go down the Class D N core route but not everyone likes an accurate sound.., but if you are after a bit of added colour with less resolution then the EAR would be a good fit though thats a lot of heat and EAR amps have been known to have reliability issues.

Another candidate would be the LM 501 which will certainly have the drive and power.

 

Rogue Cronus Magnum II.

 

I have my M30.1 Harbeths in my bedroom along with my old Marantz 2238B I purchased new in the 70’s. The Marantz is just 40 watts/channel and drives the Harbeth’s just fine. Then again, being in my bedroom, I run the volume rather moderately.

What price range are you considering? For about $6K USD I’d look at an McIntosh MC275. For much less, you can get a China-produced amp like Line Magnetic or (as previously mentioned), Prima Luna.

 

I heard the Prima Luna with B&W 805 D2 and it was splendid. In fact it is probably my next amp for my D3's.

 

If your looking for 75 wpc or better and tubes, I’d look at VTL, Balanced Audio Technology and Manley.

 

I don't really know anything about the Harbeth speakers but the Stereophile measurments of the 30.2 40th anniversary edition show a speaker whose impedance curve never drops below 6 ohms, and doesn't much look very hard to drive. Is the version of the 30.2 you have different in terms of impedance than the 40th anniversary edition. Because looking at the charts, as Stereophile writes, "it should be an easy load for amplifiers to drive."It's not a speaker that looks like it's going to love tube amps only because

it's relatively inefficient, and with a very widely varying impedeance curve and phase angle curve, you might face some frequency response modifications with a tube amp. (Tube amps are best with relatively flat impedance and phase angle curves.) So probably you'd have the best match with an Ultralinear tube circuit -- which will be less subject to frequency response modification from the varying load -- and with the most powerful Ultralinear tube amp you can afford -- because of the moderate to low efficiency of the speaker.

Remember tube amps are different that transistor amps. Transistor amps will increase and often double their power output into lower loads. Tube amps will deliver maximum power into the exact load that the output transformer tap is designed for -- so 8 ohm tap into 8 ohms -- and less power into the load as it moves away, in either direction, from the expected load.

So if the Accuphase is 30W into 8 ohms, 60W into 4 ohms, something like the Primaluna you have listed above is I think an U/L circuit but at 35 W into 8 ohms, it's not going to give you more power.

FWIW, "made for the studio" vs. "made for the home" shouldn't make any difference. The famous Yamaha NS10, which became among the most widely used studio monitors were initially made for the home market; the LS35/A BBC monitors, never were the world's most accurate studio monitors, but found a niche in the home market.

BTW, the other thing I notice looking at the Stereophile measurements is how steeply the treble rolls off off axis (and the depth of the 3kHz-ish notch off access which I assume is around the woofer/tweeter crossover). One thing you might want to do is make sure with your set up, you're listening on axis -- speakers pointing pretty much at your ears and ear either at tweeter height or at the height right between the tweeter and the woofer. If your version of those speakers is like the version measured by Stereophile, those speakers aren't likely to give you much "air" if you're listening off axis.

 

If the curve is like the curve published in Stereophile for the 40th anniversary edition, the impedance curve is anything but smooth (the phase angle curve isn't smooth either), but the impedance never drops below 6 ohms so it shouldn't be a hugely difficult load to drive, especially for a solid state amp with a sufficient power supply.

 

I use the Prima Luna Dialogue Premium HP integrated running EL34s with my 30.1s and it’s fantastic. If I needed more power I could roll in KT150s. If you needed more power than that you could get a pair of Prima Luna Dialogue Premium HP amps and run them mono. More power still? A pair of Prima Luna Dialogue Premium HP amps with KT150s. Great sound, great flexibility, jaw dropping value for money. Best audio dollars I have spent.

 

Is your current amp 150 wpc? If so, power should be the issue and if you're looking for more of it, tubes are a very tough way to get there.

 

From Harbeth's site:
"The M30.2 anniversary model features; the latest WBT-nextgen binding posts, a new-look tweeter with silver hex grill, British-made audio grade poly capacitors, and Harbeth's 40th anniversary ultra-pure OFC internal cable. This model also features our 40th anniversary limited edition front and back badges, as well as a metallic black and gold anniversary grille badge." It's basically just a 30.1 with different capacitors and some cosmetic upgrades.

I'm driving my C7s with a Primaluna Prologue 1 35w/ch EL34-based amp and they sound divine. The C7s are listed at 86 db/6 ohms - easy load to drive, the 30.1 are listed at 85db/6 ohms - easy load to drive. So they might take a bit more power, but it doesn't seem like they'd need much more.

 

I'm sold on Primaluna. Currently using a ProLogue Two (KT88s) with my Harbeth 7es-3s and it's a great match.

 

The M30.2 IS the 40th Anniversary Edition. The M30.1 is the "standard" edition. The differences between the M30.1 and the M30.2 40th Anniversary are:

* WBT Nexgen Binding Posts
* Upgraded Poly Crossover Caps
* Oxygen Free Cable
* Silver Mesh Grille on the Tweeter (cosmetic)
* Silver Eucalyptus Veneer (cosmetic)
* $6,999/pair (M30.2 4oth Anniversary Silver Eucalyptus) vs $5,799 (M30.1 Rosewood) or $5,499 (M30.1 Cherry)

(All prices USD, 2018)

 

Vinnie Rossi was pairing his amps with Harbeth at Axpona.

 

Sounds to me like you had a winner with the C7 / Accuphase combo... what was it about the M30's performance at the show that got you doubting your gear?

 

So unlikely to be significantly different in terms of phase angle, impedance or dispersion

 

Yes, I had a winner combo for sure.. But I found M30.2 at the show was so smooth that I had to get a 30.2

 

thank you very much for your opinion.
Will check out Vincent, LM, and Bel Canto..
Thanks a lot.

 

My budget is less than 10k.
LM, Prima Luna, and MC275

thanks a lot...

 

OK. thank you.

 

I have a Chartwell LS3/5A as well as 30.2
When I hook these to the Accuphase E600, piano sound on 30.2 sounds muddy, and the same piano sounds so crystal clear on the LS3/5a.
As far as I remember, C7es3 with the E600 sounds very airy, warm, and smooth.
Somehow I cannot seem to get satisfactory sound from 30.2 with E600.

 

sure thing. I will check out Prima Luna as well..
thanks a lot.

 

Based only on what I’ve read I’d look into Raven Audio. When I start getting serious about my next integrated they have several I’ll be wanting to audition.

 

Since you have a pretty big budget and the heat from tubes doesn't bother you, you might try the Pass Labs solid-state amps. They run hot and have very liquid sound. The Class AB models (e.g., X350.8) have a lot more power than you are likely to get from tubes (as @Dennis0675 said). Since Harbeths are rather inefficient, the extra power might help them come alive. While I understand that your stated preference is for tubes, you might consider trying some really good solid-state amps as well and see what you think.

 

Maybe a used VAC?