While incomplete, it looks to be a nice overview set. Given the Billie Holiday box(es), I can't believe Columbia never did a more inclusive box of Goodman, either on Lp or CD. This just reinforces my belief that Goodman was very undervalued as a musician and band leader.
Columbia doesn't seem to have thought much of big band music once rock and roll and the likes of Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck, etc. came along. Capitol and RCA Victor (or whoever owned the rights to the music of Goodman, Shaw, Dorsey, etc.) and other labels saw the value of some of the older recordings and artists and issued lots of great new and older big band and swing music in the 1950s-1970s. I suspect Columbia's focus was on vocals with big band or orchestral accompaniment at the expense of instrumental works.
I found an unsealed copy of the RCA Victor Years box and have started comparing track-for track, starting with some reference songs I'm very familiar with, such as Hunkadola, Madhouse, Sing Me a Swing Song, and Sing, Sing, Sing. Note that both of my sources (the Box and the 8x2s) are pristine, unscratched, unblemished copies. There is no surface noise transmitted through either. My first impression, and know that I have trouble picking up fine differences a better trained ear would, is that the Box set is simply louder than the 8x2s. I can't hear much difference in surface noise from the original source material. What surface noise is on one is on the other. There may be slightly more high end in the box set, but it is no where near the difference between, say The Birth of Swing CD set and either of these. The Birth of Swing is MUCH noisier, with little to no surface noise reduction and little elimination of the high end. I find the surface noise on Birth to be distracting, especially on Hunkadola and a few other tracks where you can hear the source disc spinning. It is also "tinnier" and not as warm as either the Box or 8x2s. While the Box and 8x2s are softer and warmer, they are not overly aggressive in noise reduction as some tracks on the Membran set are. I can't tell if the Box material is remastered directly from the source material or if it draws on tapes/acetates from the 8x2 pressing done in the 1970s. I would guess it might draw on the tapes, but most likely not the acetates, since using the latter would produce an exact clone, which the Box is not. Some tracks, such as When It's Sleepy Time Down South, sound to me to be different transcriptions. The Box version sounds cleaner than the 8x2s. The engineers may have chosen some tracks to re-master directly from the source and not others. I can't tell and the liner notes give no indication. An oddity with the Box is that some sides are labeled "Mono" while others are "Stereo". This is unusual since by this time I was sure RCA had given up on the fake stereo-ization of older mono tracks through the orthophonic or "rechanneled" processes. The tracks simply can't be stereo since they weren't recorded in stereo and there is no written or audible indication of rechanneling. They did not, thankfully, have the abysmal fake echo added as discussed down-thread. There is no left-right channeling that I can hear. The sides labeled "stereo" sound mono to me. I'm good at picking this out in other genres, such as 1960s Motown, where the difference between mono and stereo is clearly evident, and sometimes shockingly so. I do like the box itself, the liner notes, and the fact that they kept the volumes labeled consistently with the 8x2s, why they did the latter I'm not sure. You end up with two discs each numbered the same volume, 1-8 (so two volume 1 discs, two volumes 2 discs, etc.). This keeps consistency with the 8x2s since there were two discs in each of the eight volumes, but ostensibly people wouldn't actually own both, just one or the other. I would have thought they would have just labeled each disc a volume and run out to volume 16. I like it since I have both sets and can easily find where I am as I compare the two sets. I love disc labels and watch for the smallest changes. The Box has the tag line under "Bluebird" at the top of the label as "Digitally Remastered" where the 8x2s kept the original Bluebird tag line "Electronically Recorded Phonograph Records". As much as I've been listening to the Victor years, I'm glad to have an Lp back-up of this material. The Box is just nice to have too. I love the "grandeur" of a boxed set. The heft of the sixteen discs can't be understated. It is impressive. Of course, the biggest shame is that RCA did not release this set on CD in the US as they did the Glenn Miller set. I guess they didn't think the market was there, but how sad. I don't even know if RCA is still releasing its back-catalogue since all the old records companies have been reconfigured so many times in so many multi-national corporate conglomerates that its hard to even find them. I did see a re-birth of Victor records, but it doesn't look like they have the rights to any of their old material. If RCA is still releasing back-catalogue material, this should be put to a grand CD box set before CDs go the way of records and tapes. There is no grandeur in a digital/streaming boxed set.
Excellent analysis! I have a few observations based on my own (though much less detailed) analysis. I can't hear much difference in surface noise from the original source material. What surface noise is on one is on the other. There may be slightly more high end in the box set . . . My comparison was only against one of the two-LP volumes, and I’m not sure how many of the tracks I compared and whether they were on a track-by-track basis. (I borrowed the double LP and had to return it.) I thought the double LP was a bit muddier, with more high end and surface noise present. I liked the sound of the 16-LP set better – which surprised me, given the purported digital treatment - getting the impression they started from “scratch” (see below) rather than the double LP mastering. I can't tell if the Box material is remastered directly from the source material or if it draws on tapes/acetates from the 8x2 pressing done in the 1970s. As I understand it, the original masters were destroyed, and the best source is either the pre-destruction tapes or 78s. I have assumed the tapes in all cases were used, and that the two sets used the same source. But that’s only an assumption based on the fact that the 8x2 format was used for both. An oddity with the Box is that some sides are labeled "Mono" while others are "Stereo". At least at one point I thought my mono cart/stylus sounded funny (as compared to either of my stereo carts/styli), and then I noticed the “stereo” designation. I noted the issue at this site, and someone said the LPs likely were mono recordings cut with a stereo lathe. I don’t know enough about such things to opine one way or another. (I certainly don’t detect any faux stereo, and I have enough of those recordings to tell the difference.) I do like the box itself . . . It’s box sets like that that make me want to buy an antique dictionary stand to hold the box when I play the records. The Box has the tag line under "Bluebird" at the top of the label as "Digitally Remastered" where the 8x2s kept the original Bluebird tag line "Electronically Recorded Phonograph Records". That is the case with many of the Bluebird reissues (i.e., 1970s originals vs the 1980s reissues). Of course, the biggest shame is that RCA did not release this set on CD in the US as they did the Glenn Miller set. I guess they didn't think the market was there, but how sad. I always assume in such cases it is/was the Goodman estate that is/was very restrictive about such releases (though they shouldn’t be). Perhaps the Japanese CD set was an experiment of sorts or even an unauthorized set that the Goodman people put a halt to. I have a double LP set of the Goodman-Lee recordings that apparently was a Japanese-only release, which suggests there’s a Goodman thing going on there that hasn’t made its way west. If RCA is still releasing back-catalogue material, this should be put to a grand CD box set before CDs go the way of records and tapes. There is no grandeur in a digital/streaming boxed set. Certainly no argument here.
I can't remember. Did we come to any conclusions regarding this spurious-looking set? I've seen a few record company designations associated with this set, including Membran, so we might be back to where we started with that (Membran) discussion.
It's not from Membran, which was the other set we were discussing that covered most of the Victor years. Amazon lists it as in import from "Phantom Sound and Vision". Looking at some of the song names on the CDs in your photo and the listing on Amazon, it looks like the pre-Victor work, plus Victor, plus the first few years of Columbia. Sound quality, no idea. I'm afraid to buy it since I think I have everything on it and sound quality on these sets can be inconsistent.
This (and at least one other site I've seen) indicates Membran - Benny Goodman - King Of Swing I've seen at least two other labels given credit for this, including "Document" and "International Music Company". I must admit I'm very curious, but I know it ultimately would be a waste of money (and space).
I stand corrected. Maybe the one on Amazon is just using a different label. The Discogs links with the track list is helpful. About half of the Victor years is there and bits and pieces of the early Columbia years. I'd buy it for $20-$30 just for some of the tunes I don't currently have digitally.
On eBay at present (including shipping but not tax): Like New - $25.00 New - $41.00 The former looks like a good deal. (You might even be able to shave a few bucks off the price.)
Check out these samples - https://www.amazon.it/Goodmann-Benny-Box-King-Swing/dp/B00005FCEK How do they sound as compared to the 10-CD Membran? They sound quite good to my ears. I think I detect some faux stereo on a few (though not all) songs, but if I do it certainly doesn't detract from the music.
Some of these sound better (I haven't listened to all). Victor Sing, Sing, Sing on the Membran set is awful. The sample doesn't sound as bad on the link above. But the others do sound very close to the Membran set. Sing, Sing, Sing from Carnegie (Disc 12, Track 15 on the link) sounds worse than the Columbia Jazz Masterpiece version. King Porter, Hunkadola sound the same, Sing Me a Swing Song sounds a bit clearer/more high end. This seems like another aural mixed bag, but certainly worth it as collection filler for $20-30.
I’d like it only to create a 320 kbps USB version that I could insert into my CD player. Great for easy random play. Goodman all day without lifting a finger!
This is exactly what I did. I put together the Victor Years set digitally from several sources so I could listen all day at work. When I want better quality, I put one of the sets on the turntable. The Mosaic Box is outstanding for the Columbia Years and I've tracked down a copy of the Mosaic Capitol Years box for the same reason. I can now listen to Benny at work on mp3/M4a from about 1928/29 onward. When I'm feeling particularly ambitious, I'll listen in chronological order, but that will take days, if not weeks, to get through.
This looks great. Its frustrating that the Connor and Hicks book only goes to 1968. These things after that time pop up that I don't know exist. Thanks for sharing.
I recall being confused about the relative merits of BG on the Record and Listen to His Legacy, ultimately deciding to buy neither (for a reason I cannot recall, possibly simple inertia). I read Ross Firestone’s biography, however, which made significant use of one or both.
Connor and Hicks is a complete discography up to 1968 and is absolutely invaluable for tracking Benny's catalog. Almost every other book of Goodman draws heavily on it. I think Listen to His Legacy is an updated printing. I don't know if it adds Goodman's recordings after 1968 or not. It was printed in 1988 and the one shown below was printed in 1978, but is just a simple reprinting of the 1968 version that stops at 1968. I can get it through my library so will request it and see. I have James Lincoln Collier's Benny Goodman and the Swing Era, which is a biography. It focuses too much on the pre-Victor, Victor, and Carnegie Hall eras at the expense of the later Columbia period and very little to no mention of anything after the swing era, defined by the author as 1945. That said, Collier conveys the excitement of Goodman's Victor bands better than anyone else I've read on Goodman. I'll have to look int the Firestone book. Of course there is Kolodin and Goodman's book as well.
Thanks.....I just ordered BG On Record through Amazon. The seller says it is in very good condition. We shall see. I also have the Firestone bio coming through inter loan library.
I have found Connor and Hicks to be absolutely invaluable as I build out my Goodman 78 & Lp collection to avoid having too many duplicate copies of things. There is also nice narrative sprinkled throughout.
You must have all of the issued Yale recordings. I have volumes one (vinyl) and 7, 11 and 12 (CD). Based on samples and Spotify, I was disappointed with the remaining recordings. I think it is strange that the 12 volumes represents the best of what Benny had kept all those years.
Have 2 Items with Benny in Sweden. a) from the series "Jazz Years" from Swedish Radio "The King of Sewing in Sweden 1950" - SGA SRJCD-101 b) Benny Goodman & his orchestra in Sweden 1970" - label London 820 471-2 Here are the pics for the latter
Also recently issued from a concert in Freiburg, Germany I think this: and this: are the same just with different track lists, possibly different shows? Will check with Connor and Hicks when I get home.
