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Record Grading/Discogs

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Triss, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Like the over use of the word Vintage I don't like the word Mint when we look at records. That infers some sort of perfection that really doesn't exists IMHO with records. I can let you open 5 brand new records and bet we don't find a Mint record. Depending on the person you can have someone with OCD, and supper anal about every little thing they see, we see the complaining online when they buy new records all the time. They take that word mint to be perfect in their eyes.

    So even with new records I'll say sealed or as delivered from the factory. Then E+, E, VG+, VG and then don't sell records below that online and always be conservative in grading.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  2. Triss

    Triss Dark Horse Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    It shocking the lack of quality control that goes into new records. I only buy new records for brand new releases, never reissues. I happened to open two this morning, one was fine, albeit dusty. One had jagged edges, some sort of white paint line over it too, I’d have not bought it if I’d inspected it used in a shop
     
  3. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    I actually didn't mean it in that way, I should have just said sealed records, be them old or new. They actually put out far better records today than they ever did back in the day. However it helps if you know what to shop and look for, lowest price on a reissue is not one of them. Although sometimes I'm blown away with some new $18 record that sounds awesome. My point was any record as delivered from the factory some will find any flaw to complain about, so then it can't be mint.
     
  4. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ah, sure! Yes, I would imagine the box actually gave a decent amount of protection. My only worry would be if the box had ever been stored laid down, so that the records were effectively resting in a stack on top of one another.

    I will say, having purchased individual copies of some of the mono albums, I had to try a few copies of the White Album before I got one that was good... I’ve heard no such complaints from people who bought the whole box.
     
  5. Mr. Gnome

    Mr. Gnome Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
  6. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I have been having some bad luck on Discogs lately. Most sellers don't seem to understand that VG+ means that any defects are only COSMETIC! It should basically play the same as NM.

    "A Very Good Plus record will show some signs that it was played and handled by a previous owner who took good care of it. Any defects are of a cosmetic nature, not affecting the actual playback. In theory, a VG+ record should sound the same as a Near Mint (NM) one. Vinyl surfaces may show some signs of wear and may have slight scuffs or very light scratches that don’t affect listening. Slight warps that do not affect the sound are okay."
    How To Determine The Condition Of A Vinyl Record | Discogs

    I sell records on there as well, and I am very careful with my grading. I am SICK of the overgrading. I even message sellers beforehand to confirm condition, what it should be, my expectations and VG+ listings STILL show up in G+ or VG condition. I think these sellers are going to get negative ratings from me now. Sure, many will give money back for overgrading...but then I have purchased a poor condition record I never wanted in the first place. Shipping is expensive. I am totally over the overgrading.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Ever heard that PayPal refunds shipping up to $30 USD and 6x/year?
     
  8. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    No, thanks! Why do they refund?
     
  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Rockin' Robby likes this.
  10. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Why? There is no room for a grade between NM and VG+. NM plays perfectly, and VG+ plays perfectly as well, but may have a superficial mark or 2. They are already almost the same. It is laid out right here:
    How to Determine the Condition of a Vinyl Record
    When I see imaginary grades like EX, M-, VG++ or whatever the hell else these garbage sellers come up with in the descriptions, it drives me stupid! What do these imaginary grades even mean? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    There is a total plague of overgrading happening on discogs. Only once or twice have I purchased a VG+ record on there that is actually graded correctly. So many garbage sellers seem to maintain a 100% rating. And I am not picky. I don't even care how the record looks, only how it plays. Something needs to be done to fix this. Perhaps some kind of campaign to educate all of these ignorant sellers? I don't know.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  11. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    You want to know my observations? It got a REALLY bad rap around 1998-2000 when UK sellers started using EX and EX+ are a grade below VG+. It was never previously a common grade at all in the US. It started as a European grade which was supposed to mean just below NM, but we already have NM- for that. So many UK dealers started sending out VG and VG+ and even VG- records as EX and EX+. The EX+ and EX grade got so abused that many buyers were not sure if it meant above or below the VG+ grade. There was confusion due to the abusive sellers using a grade not commonly used or found as a Goldmine grading.

    So buyers burned once and burned twice were forced to ask more questions and get clarity on how that EX grade is being applied. SH Forums classifieds simply do not allow it to be used for vinyl grades. Discogs seems to as well, does not provide the EX option for sellers. And that is why, too much of an abused grade.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  12. stratmel

    stratmel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    This is the whole key on discogs.
    I'm a relatively new seller of mostly 7" 45's on discogs. I'm otherwisely retired, so I have time to play grade every record I post for sale.
    I do use VG++ in my descriptions, while grading the record VG+. As a seller, I try to look at it from the viewpoint of the buyer, i.e., it's me buying this record. The VG+ grade seems to me to cover a very large range of flaws, everything between M- and VG, or almost perfect to playable with issues. VG++ (or Ex) seems to better describe a nicer condition record that is still short of M-.
    So, even though VG++/Ex is not an official discogs grade, I think it certainly can be used to effectively describe the condition of the record.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  13. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Absolutely, it's saying look I don't want to put this up as NM-, but this VG+ record is so nice and close to the higher grade that I think you'll be very happy with it. Then go on to say the good things about it. Like has a drill hole in the cover and someone's tiny initials on the back bottom corner, but no ring, no splits, and no other issues, the LP has a spindle mark on each label as if it was played once and never touched again. An EX+++ is truly what this is!!

    Then you price it on the high end of what others (with worn covers and nice but used looking vinyl) in the VG+ range are selling theirs for.

    I often hype my LPs with the end statement "You'll be glad you got this one" and damn if the feedback does not also agree. One needs to let the buyers know this one is special, not exactly Near Mint, but way up there and close to it. Or you can state that you just played with LP with an AT VM540ML and it sounds spectacular with no distracting surface noises. No dust or fingerprints here!

    A little hype is fine if it is true.
     
    Warand Pain and stratmel like this.
  14. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    How to Determine the Condition of a Vinyl Record
    Have you read this? It is black and white. VG+ plays perfectly, but doesn't quite appear NM. It is very specific. I am not sure what you are talking about when you type "M-". There is no such thing.

    Also, no, a VG+ record does NOT cover VG records. VG will play with a small bit of audible damage.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  15. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    When you list a VG+ record all you need to say is "Plays perfectly.". Because it should. That will quickly sell the record.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  16. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    Mint as sealed is all very well in the U.S.However,in the U.K many records are still sold new and unsealed,especially from small independent labels.I really wish people on this forum from the U.S would acknowledge this.
    Also,we don't have a history here of new records being sealed when shipped from pressing plants.Until the early 2000's(approx) very few new records sold here were sealed.
    Personally,if I'm selling a record I have owned from new I would never grade it as mint unless I knew I had never played it.If it has been very lightly played with no defects and still appears as new I would grade as NM.If it was a sealed record I would describe it as sealed not mint.Nobody knows the condition of a sealed record!
    My tip for buying on Discogs is that most NM's turn out to be somewhere between VG+ to EX.Yes,I know many on here believe these grades should be equal,but not me.I have bought on Discogs records graded as VG+ and many times been pleasantly surprised.When this is the case I use this seller again.
    I have posted before about how I believe that the VG+ grade has become devalued over time,hi-jacked almost by the ubiquitous NM grade which has become overused due partially to the fear of sellers not wanting to use VG+ and also the sometimes unwarranted pessimism of buyers.The VG+ grade should indicate a perfectly acceptable record and sleeve,but unfortunately it now has become a symbol of suspicion for many.
     
    Warand Pain likes this.
  17. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    With you wholeheartedly about overgrading.But please,the EX grade is NOT an imaginary grade! In the U.S fair enough,where you use Goldmine.Here we use the Record Collector Price Guide and EX is perfectly acceptable.We buy sell and collect records over here too you know!
    However,the overuse of +/- symbols infuriates me too.
     
    tmtomh likes this.
  18. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    No there is going to be an odd tick or click that someone might consider than not perfectly. Some might consider "perfectly" as like a CD. Way too vague and promising too much. There is no such thing as perfection in life, only excellence.
     
    zongo and Big Blue like this.
  19. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    UK sellers hammered the EX and EX+ grade to death. BEAT IT TO A PULP!!!

    Too bad, because it does and can exist when it's not being totally abused.

    That felt good to type, I feel fine continuing with Goldmind now.
     
  20. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    If there are any issues from manufacturing they can fairly be mentioned as well.
     
  21. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    This thread is about Discogs. Goldmine grading. No EX. It doesn't matter where you are when using Discogs. No EX.
     
  22. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    Sorry,don't agree.The thread is about whether or not the EX grade can be legitimately used.Many sellers still use the EX grade within the Discogs parameters.Quite helpfully in my view.
     
  23. Rockin' Robby

    Rockin' Robby Gettin' down so low I'm below ground!

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Ok, how so? It isn't an option on Discogs, and there is no definition for it. M, NM, VG+, VG, G+, G are discogs grades. No "EX". The Goldmine standard is more than adequate, there is no room for "EX".

    How to Determine the Condition of a Vinyl Record
     
  24. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I’ve received brand new Canadian indie records that were not sealed, which gave me a bit of pause because I had not seen that before.

    IME, a record that is distributed from brand new without ever being sealed is rarely, if ever, going to be in true mint condition.
     
    Rockin' Robby likes this.
  25. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    There is an option on Discogs,in the notes box where you can add your own descriptive notes.It's a common practice for U.K sellers and helps a lot for those of us who do not buy from the U.S,mainly due to postal costs and the possibility of extortionate duty fees.The use of EX is an accepted practice and has been ever since people started buying and selling.I reiterate my point that this thread is primarily about whether or not the EX grade is a viable alternative to VG+.It is not solely about the Discogs grading system.

    There are two main grading systems in use in our world.Discogs and the RRPG system.
     

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