Records noisier after cleaning - any ideas?

Another update in case people were waiting with bated breath

I have been in constant contact with the store, who were desperate to rectify the problem as they wanted me to be happy. They think they have narrowed down the issue to a cloth wipe after the vacuum clean and have now replaced this part of the process with another ultrasonic bath in distilled water to rinse off anything that might still be lurking.

I’m going to take back a handful of records to run them back through and see if the results are better this time, and if so they’ll make it right.

So all’s well that ends well (especially since if I decide not to take most of them back, I can fix the cleaning crackle myself thanks to help from here!)

 

Thanks for the update, good luck.

 

Sounds likely. I don't trust cloths, especially at the end of the cleaning process.

 

I think you might want to look at this thing another way. First, if the record store that is doing the cleaning is being honest with you ( maybe they are lying, but they seem to be sincere so hopefully they are not lying ) they have many very satisfied customers. Second, you have preliminary data from the use of the AT6012 device that a simple brush with it eliminates the problem. Have you examined the AT6012 to see if it appears to have removed dust from the freshly cleaned records? If there is no dust then it seems likely that this is a problem of static build up being removed by the AT6012. If it is static build up and you are one of the few customers ( possibly the only customer ) that has this problem, then maybe you should ask yourself what are you doing to cause static build up on the freshly cleaned records. London is usually a damp environment, are you doing something to keep you living quarters very dry? How were the records stored before they were cleaned? Were they in older paper sleeves that could be a little damp and now have been replaced by clean dry sleeves?

I hope this doesn't offend you. You are thinking the record store did something unique to your batch, maybe you are doing something unique to your batch. I hope this helps.

 

I don't know why all the abrasionists don't just take the gloves off and use 180 grit or a belt sander. That'll take off whatever's on the records, for sure ;-)

 

I thought MacGyver retired in 1992.....

 

Records noisier after cleaning - any ideas?

 

No, I’m not offended - I think we had gone over some of these ideas before but always worth getting another opinion!

The store suggested static charge as the first probable cause of my noise - however they sent me a zerostat gun and I have used it on a few of the offending discs to no effect because the records show no visible signs of being statically charged at all - they don’t stick to the mat or the inner sleeve, there is no crackle when I touch them or whatever.

They were all in Nagaoka anti static inners before I took them in, and they are now all in brand new anti static inners. So not much has changed from that perspective.

I did consider whether my room or my turntable was somehow statically charging the discs when I played them - but this constant light crackle does not happen to brand new discs nor to any other second-hand discs in my collection.

That the AT6012 is removing something that causes the crackle seems to be undeniable, and if it is not static then I’m totally sold on the theory from some in this thread that it’s residue either from cleaning fluid or dirt/mould contaminates from some of the other records in the batch.

That the record store has bought a second ultrasonic cleaner to add that distilled water rinse at the end of their process tells me they must think something similar, at the end of all this.

As to why nobody else has ever had this problem… that’s got me stumped. Perhaps trying to do my batch of 100 records is more than the store has ever tried and that ended up with something getting rushed or fluid being used for more records than usual? Or perhaps there are a lot of people out there who think “that lovely old crackle and pop” of vinyl is what they’re aiming for

 

I don't know their cleaning processes at this store you brought your records to, and have never incorporated an Ultrasonic Process and Machine into my cleaning regimen.

But thinking with some basic common sense, I think my process if I had both tools on hand would be this:

My first step would likely be right into the Ultrasonic Bath. Doing anything prior to this cleaning step, I'm not sure what advantage it would hold? Such as starting to wipe on a dirty record, and then abrading the record surface with any form of physical process, wiping, brushing, anything. Other than maybe blowing both sides of the Record with Canned Air.

In the bath they go. and let a touchless US process dislodge any dirts, contaminants, off the record first to whatever degree this process may give before any physical contact occurring on an RCM, Brushes, Record Cleaners.

I might lightly wipe the record at that point after coming out of the bath, that I'm not placing a sopping wet record on an RCM Platter.

And no, I would not let the record fully air dry in between the two cleaning steps of US and RCM Cleaning.

Then do a 2 or 3 step cleaning process, and lastly a pure water rinse, vacuum off and that's it! No more wiping, nothing.
Nothing at all should be needed after that.

Everyone of course seems to have their own little methods, as varied as there are the letters in the alphabet, but that would be mine.

 

You ask why no one else has ever had this problem? Maybe some have, but I honestly say that I haven't, and I just use an RCM.

Because after the cleaning and rinse steps, nothing more should be required to be done. I rinse with a water that has higher purity than single step distilled, and after 2 revolutions on the RCM, that's it, the record in 99.999% dry.

I have on occasion seen very fine micro-mist on the record after, that as you look very closely, it evaporates right before your eyes in a mere few second's time. Wait a bit, inspect that the record is fully dry, no wet-damp labels, etc, and only then will I sleeve the Record. Done.

 

I meant why none of the other customers of the record store who have had their records cleaned using a supposedly identical method and were apparently very happy with it.

 

The particulate matter that makes the sound heard on his samples is not going to be visible on the brush, not without a lot more of it.

 

Well, I might liken it to a person who goes and buys a car that was built on the proverbial "bad days" like a Monday, or a Friday.

You maybe went on a bad day, guy doing the cleaning had lots of crap to do, he had a hangover, his dog bought the farm, etc etc. Surely don't wish to write a lengthy paragraph about such hypothesis.

I know this thread is beyond long in the tooth. I at current am quite reluctant to continue to post, because of the many difference of opinions, lots of hash, a freaking overload to your poor brain, and in essence it actually comes down to the fact we've all made a mountain out of a mole hill.

I can only conclude, I found my path basically, a pretty decent path, I don't ever want to have to rely on someone cleaning my records, I'd like to be able to believe if I dropped $75,000 USA Dollars on a System that I could at least hook it all up myself, and enjoy that part of the process and the reward it brings me personally.

There are the many sides, some people can drop $15K on a Home Theater Projector, spend another $15K for some seats to park their butts in front of the screen. I'm not that kind of guy, and will never be, even if $25M fell from the sky.

Again, not sure about how involved you are, but if you wish to continue forward, again I will say seriously consider the acquisition of an RCM.

This could then be part deux, and we'll go from there!

 

Just because the solution isn't mass-manufactured and marketed by a company that recognized a profit potential doesn't mean that it isn't the right one for the job. See for example page 28 (of 145) in the "vinyl record manual cleaning process" document by Neil Antin, and you have hardware store parts put together into a "product".

 

Yes, it's been posted before in here before.
His section on solutions is a good read, the rest of it I'll pass on.

 

Whatever they did likely a film of some substance was left on the surface which the AT brush and fluid is removing. Obviously not static or dust. This is just bad cleaning practice which all sorts of fancy machines won't change unless you apply the process correctly. It's the sort of noise that sometimes disappears after just a wet clean and vacuum on my RCM. Not sure why they are adding yet another cavitation tank. Just vac dry records and don't wipe them with anything. Even rack drying is better.

 

I'm curious to know how you're getting on with the Audio Technica pad. I just decided to order one. Did it remove the crackles from any of your other records? Did they remain crackle free?

 

The AT6012, lightly misted with a mostly to all alcohol solution will solve the large majority of of problems on records that are in reasonably good condition. After Phil started a thread about it a year or so ago, I took a chance and now own three of them and my records, most of which I've owned for decades, have never sounded better.

Or people can continue to use RCMs, US machines, alchemic voodoo solutions, or whatever they like. Sometimes, the simplest solution is the best one.

Or forget vinyl and listen to CDs/streams.

 

I've been having good results with a couple Disco-Antistats and a liberal application of IPA in both the clean and rinse stages. Thing is the records get clicky again pretty fast and getting out all that equipment is a pain in the **** so a handy wet clean pad that can keep them fresh sounds great.

I've got my feet firmly in the digital realm but psychologically it doesn't feel real to me. Vinyl's flaws are glaring and obvious but it certainly is nice to own some. I tend to make a boozy night of it whenever I get a new record

 

I understand completely what you mean about the digital realm somehow feeling artificial, especially to those of us who grew up with vinyl. I'm slowly getting over it though.

 

Yep, it’s doing a fine job - I’ve used it on more records from the badly cleaned batch, other second hand records which were noisier than I liked, and even brand new ones (though I’ve not used the fluid on those) and results were good on all of them.

Even just as a brush I find it is better than any of the several others I have around here - it seems to remove a lot more crud.

 

I do buy the bargain bin records, let me give you an example. I visit a Goodwill outlet in our area, as they always surprise me with older records. I carefully inspect any albums I buy, most are new or almost new. Here is a 4 record set I purchased a few days ago, good old stuff! I paid a whopping .87 cents for this 4 record set, it just does not get much better than that.







The records in this particular set are amazing, they are so darn thick, and absolutely perfectly flat. The fidelity is very good and certainly worthy of consideration by any vinyl shopper. I have been enjoying them, a real blast from the past. When I play these records on this turntable with the cartridge I have, I am really surprised just how great they sound, oh, I forgot to mention, whisper quiet surface. You know, Michael Fremer has always been high on these old Reader's Digest sets, and I certainly see why, they were just a great quality product.

 

87 cents? You got taken!

 

That's normal, I've already experienced this issue. The records you sent were very dirty right? So, the cleaning has loosened the dirt, but not removed it. Play these records and the stylus itself will take care of removing that dust for you. Sometimes you'll see dust being collected by your "needle" but, don't worry, just clean it every side of the record.

 

You must be drinking tonight, enjoy the libations.