Rega Planar 1 sounds better than Thorens TD 160B mark ii

It isn't in your home, with yourself and your environment and use case. In my real world, footfalls are a problem (exacerbated by McLover getting to deal with CP and it's issues, and a house with a wood floor which has a resonant mode). And for me, Rega is an upgrade company who sells turntables.

 

And a TD 124 is hardly a Garrard 301 or 401, let alone an EMT. Also, an unserviced Thorens which hasn't had maintenance in 30 something years shouldn't be compared to a new turntable and tonearm. Service it properly or get it serviced by someone who knows what they're doing before you compare it to anything. This goes for any older HiFi equipment. You wouldn't expect a 30-40 year old car to get you from A to B or perform like new unserviced, wouldn't you.

 

Right...

 

I did audition a Linn LP12 Akurate, but couldn’t justify the cost over my Thorens.

But, I think we have ascertained that I’m deluded.

So, back to records.

 

Well I'd still recommend that when things are more normal you at least demo a top Rega and a Michell Orbe if possible, at the very least it will give you a point of reference, I'm not a Linn fan so I'm not surprised the Akurate wasn't worth the cost, at the end of the day as long as you enjoy your deck that's really all that matters, enjoy listening to your records.

 

What does a turntable service involve? And would that and a new arm definitely improve things?

I just wouldn’t want to spend more money on it and then have it still sound almost the same as a Planar 1

 

lucky you! My dog can’t so much as walk in the room without the turntable skipping. And he’s a miniature dachshund. Puppy.

 

Well, if it's an eBay seller stating fully serviced it usually means that they checked the belt and if you are lucky replaced it and the oil, what you need is to find a tech who is experienced with the TD-160, who will strip it down and check that everything is in the right place and within specs and that no parts are worn out, he will change the oil, replace anything that needs replacing and then properly set the deck and it's suspension up so your deck will sound as good as new. I'm not up on 160s, but there may be some upgraded parts available as well, if so whether they are worthwhile is a choice you'd have to make, I believe Linn springs are an option, a Thorens specialist would also be able to recommend the best arm for your money. If we were talking about a Garrard, Linn or even an Ariston I'd be able to point you in the direction of specialists who could get the best out of your deck, I've not come across any for the Thorens, I'm sure there are, but I just don't know who, you could try Northwest Analogue, (I haven't personally used them), give them a call and have a chat or do an internet search, I'd definitely recommend speaking to whoever you select beforehand to get a feel for them and their work. I totally understand that you don't want to throw more money into the Thorens, but if you can find someone who knows what they are doing for a fair price I think the results will justify the cost as I'm convinced a 160 can substantially outperform the Rega, also depending on what you spend your fully serviced 160 should be worth more and much more saleable if you choose not to keep it.

 

thanks for your help mate! Appreciate your wealth of knowledge. It was actually serviced by Northwest Analogue 2 years ago according to the seller but I’m going to contact them and double check anyway.

He’s offered me some money back if I want to keep it or return for full refund so I’m thinking about it.

Could be a good project to train myself on and like you say I can pass it on if I choose not to keep it.

 

Ha, interesting, although I've never used them I believe they have a good reputation so it may well be worth giving them a call, unfortunately although I've owned a few I've never run a 160 for any length of time or fully stripped one down so my knowledge is lacking on the specifics, I do suspect there is something obvious that's not right with your example, just not sure what it is, good luck.

 

Gave them a call and they're equally puzzled but seem to think its most likely the springs that need adjusting so that theres an even up/down bounce as opposed to the mostly lateral bounce i'm getting at the moment.

Oh also the eBay seller gave me half my money back so im happy! It needs a little work but im happy to do it. Will be a good project.

 

That sounds like very good news, once sorted you just need to think about the best arm option, might be worth asking NWA their opinion as I'm sure they've heard a few different setups.

 

Half what you paid initially is about the right price for the turntable. I think with a bit of work it will sound fine.

 

So far i've:

• Calibrated the azimuth
• Used a proper protractor for alignment
  
• set tracking force
• replaced the belt
• ran a meter on tonearm wires
  
• resoldered headshell connections
• tuned suspension to give a nice even up and down bounce to work with record weight too
• changed rca leads for some expensive mogami ones
• replaced the flimsy mdf base
  
• wall mounted it
• set offset bias and anti skate
  
• Checked overhang
• made sure its 100% level
• checked the tonearm bearings
• its been dampened
• oil has been changed

...and it still sounds the same....

Its been a fun project albeit frustrating
Let me emphasise it DOESNT sound bad.
It just sounds exactly like the Rega Planar 1 now.... rather than not as good.
In a blind test you wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

What i dont want to do is spend a tonne of money on a new tonearm and still have it sound the same.

Does anyone have any further thoughts on what to do? Perhaps @ddarch could chime in

Much apprecitated!

 

If there is an adapter plate cheaply available to convert your arm board to use a Rega arm or a cheap arm board, get one and see what your Rega arm sounds like mounted on the 160, at the very least you will be hearing the different sound of each deck with identical arm and cart and at best it may how your existing arm on the 160 is the weak spot.

 

There might be but like I said they sound identical now so if I switch them they’ll still sound identical.

 

On the easier side, I would change the phono cable again, you've mentioned changing the cable already but sometimes is not as straight forward to find something that makes a positive difference.

On the harder side, I would change the internal tone arm cable, meters won't tell you anything other than the cable conducts and it has some capacitance. In my experience it is quite hard to find good internal cabling. A lot of the time I was disappointed. I've found the thin Cardas to give me a good outcome.

On the even, easier side, just sell that TT and find one that works the way you want without doing anything to it. I wouldn't spend on a new arm for that type of TT because you don't know how it is going to sound until you put it there and then it might be too late and more money down the drain.

 

Different take to consider; there's something special about that cartridge. I recently accidentally broke the tension wire on my MP 110 (cool coincidence we both have the same two cartridges) and I put the carbon (At3600L/ modified AT91) back in my Planar One while I wait for a replacement to arrive. At first I thought ah hell there goes all the definition and clarity, but a few albums in I realized it somehow had this really nice balance that seemed to bring out all instruments in a way that I don't hear very often. It's simple, it seems to do LESS, than higher end cartridges which actually can have a nice effect.

It's almost neutral, but kind of cuts the highs off or dampens them in a way that's really pleasant; sort of like some tubes. It's an easy listen, and enjoyable as hell. That said I don;t have many classical or jazz records in which case I'd probably feel a lot more cheated; however for rock, pop, funk and soul, I'm pleasantly surprised.

I looked into views on the Rega Carbon in various forums and it's an echoed sentiment, it does something, and it does that something, WELL. And bonus, it's so damned cheap.

 

I'm assuming you mean that they reproduce the music at a similar quality level, rather than sounding identical, it would be very unusual for two very different decks to sound absolutely identical especially as the Rega and Thorens take very different approaches and have what you might call their own sonic characters, if they do sound absolutely alike then I'd assume there was something wrong with the amp and speakers. To answer your previous question, other than switching arm/cart I'm not sure there is anything else you can do so it may be time to sell the Thorens, at least you shouldn't take a loss on it.

 

P1 is an amazing, no-nonsense deck.

 

Maybe the Thorens isn't better unless you fit a really good arm and do 160S type mods. I would bet the bearing in the Rega is better as stock so that may have an overall impact. There is more potential in the Thorens if you spend several hundred pounds (at least) on it I think. If you don't want to go down that hole sell it and get your money back. Probably just as cheap to trade up to a better new deck such as a more upmarket Rega or Marantz TT15. If you don't want to spend a great deal I would suggest start with a Pioneer PLX 1000.

 

You will get out of a turntable what you put in to it.

I have a Thorens TD-160 Super. But it has been restored and upgraded by Vinyl Nirvana, including a new Rega/Moth arm and Cardis wiring.

I would put it on par with my Rega RP6, which has also been upgraded and has a Rega arm.

While you can't make an even comparison with a vintage table vs. A new table, I would concede that the Rega may have a small technical advantage.

I would not compare a well set up TD-160 to a lesser Rega model.

At the end of the day, I decided to part with one of them.

I kept the Thorens...

 

The Vinyl Nirvana 'TD 160s' they sell are Thorens decks they have restored and upgraded with some of the 160S mods, possibly, and maybe other improvements. They generally appear to have a black top plate. The genuine 160S has an all silver top plate. I should know since I had one for 8 years. I would put the 160S as standard in Rega planar 3 territory or close to Linn Axis though different presentation. I would expect the new P3 to be better and maybe it isn't that surprising the P1 is on a similar level to a 160B with a budget cartridge. Current Rega product is quite a bit better than the old models. I would expect the new P6 to thrash it.