Roger Waters as a bassist- underappreciated?

Not really. My guess is the band tried to repeat the 'solo recording' concept on Atom Heart Mother, as they did on Ummagumma.
Maybe understandable why the members don't like those albums, because they felt a bit directionless around 69/70.

 

Because that's not the music I revere them for. Nor the general public, I think.

 

The topic is not whether he is underappreciated as a composer of bass parts. It is whether he is underappreciated as a musician who executes bass parts.

 

That's your personal translation of the topic, not inherently there. A composer of bass parts makes those musical choices, which is part of being a bassist. Chops are not the entire picture of a musician's value, and sometimes not even the primary criterion. Is Bob Dylan a great singer? A lot of people think so.

 

Okay, how about Money? Waters came up with the main riff (it's on his solo demo) and the atypical time signature.

 

I'd say he is a great singer within his style, but with a bad voice. Much as one could be a great bassist with a bad bass guitar.

I'd say Waters has composed some memorable bass lines but is not much of a bass player. I am sure he has played some excellent basses though.

To be an excellent bass player you should be able to competently execute a wide range of bass parts someone might ask you to play.

 

I'm definitely not talking about Waters as a songwriter. He's irreplaceably singular as a songwriter.

 

This will always be a matter of opinion, that is, what constitutes a good or great musician. My ear requires a certain base level of competency, but beyond that singularity of voice (creativity, personality) trumps chops in my appreciation.

As a musician, I certainly love chops...and the combination of creativity and chops is always something especially wondrous to behold. But chops don't guarantee soul ~ the ability to manifest one's own authentic (inherently unique) voice. Which, to me, is palpable and what sets the true greats apart from the rest.

And I'm not claiming Waters is one of the greats. But he's got soul and I do think he's an underappreciated bassist. Not a monster bassist, but one who usually only gets credit for his writing, while his creativity of basslines & contribution to his band's unique sound ~ at least, in the early years ~ gets overlooked. I realize my preference for those early years (plus Animals) is a minority vote. But that period got 'em to where they went.

 

Not stated in the OP's post really. Rather, it mentions his iconic bass parts.

 

It asks about him as a bass player not about him as a composer of bass lines. He is no Bach if the latter were the question.

 

I can chip in again- I just thought the bass playing in the early years seems pretty good to me.

I mean ‘Let There Be More Light’- he composed it and plays it? Seems pretty great for ‘68, no?

 

Completely agree, just not in the way you'd appreciate!

 

Thanks for the best laugh I've had all week. Couldn't agree more. There are so many intangibles involved. If the best music is made by just the technically best players then why isn't Steve Vai as big as The Rolling Stones? There is more to what makes a good player than just technical proficiency. I've always enjoyed Roger's playing although more often than not when I really love a bass line it was Dave playing it. One of my favourite parts of Animals is that amazing bass line in the outro of Pigs (three different ones) and in live versions it largely doesn't get played and I'm assuming that's because Roger is on bass instead of Dave. I think Roger could have been a very proficient bass player, but didn't want to get shoehorned into being "just a bass player" so he spent his time and energy on other areas that helped defined the groups style and sound.

 

Pink Floyd

Never such average musicians delivered such wonderful music


Said this, I love Roger Waters playing (as a fan for 35 years, amateur bassist, and architect)

 

Yup

 

And that's the response us bitter semi-pro musicians get whenever we point out that a band member isn't that great of a musician.

 

I don't disagree, necessarily. But the topic question is if Waters is an underappreciated bassist. Which I think he is.

And one can be an excellent bass player in the scenario you state ~ being able to play defined parts someone asks them to play ~ and be deficient in another realm of musicianship. I've met "excellent" musicians that could not play outside the one of the beat, and could not improvise. They needed the sheet music in front of them before they could play, apart from pieces they'd already memorized. Their technical chops may've eclipsed mine, but I could play things they couldn't because I could play in ways they couldn't. All depends on what you've trained yourself to be able to do.

Without the ability to improvise, to think outside the lines, Pink Floyd doesn't get out of 1965. By '69, they were masters of the art.

By '87, they'd long since abandoned that art, but it's what produced so much of the canon they bask in to this day. Why is it they then needed 10 "excellent" musicians to fill the same space that four musicians (at least two of them amateurs) used to cover all by themselves on stage through 1975? Okay, plus a sax player after spring '73.

 

Well, it's all about chemistry and, well, originality, isn't it? None of the Floyd members were excellent musicians, but they managed to create something heartfelt and unique together. Chops are overrated when it comes to rock music. You need them for classical and jazz, but for rock music personal expression and the ability to evoke a reaction in listeners is more important.

 

Better to be in a position where you can create your own stuff and not worry about what anyone wants you to play.

 

Honestly even as a composer of bass parts for a rock band, the only Pink Floyd song that I would say has a particularly stinking bass line played by Waters is Money. That is a great one, no doubt. But creating one great bass part, that is simple enough that I learned to play it perfectly (though an octave up) in my first year of guitar lessons really does not make someone notable as a bass player.

He has composed quite a few great songs though, most notably (to my taste) on More, Obscured By Clouds, Meddle, DSOTM and WYWH.

 

Sure he has had a great music career. I'd like to have had his music career. Not his level of skill as a bass player though.

 

Ha ha

 

I'm just saying he's not a guy out doing auditions. He doesn't need those skills.

This reminds me of another thread where someone said something to the effect of, 'Tina Weymouth couldn't get a gig in a moderately competent local band.'

Who cares? She didn't have to do that. She was in the Talking Heads.

 

Yes, he doesnt need to be a great bass player. If the topic of the thread was "Is Roger Waters correctly appreciated as someone great at creating album length and longer works dealing with themes of alienation, loneliness, fame, insanity, war and politics a few of which he played cool bass parts on" my answer would be "yes".

 

Not to wander too far off topic, but I've never understood what people have against Tina Weymouth. In the early days, her basslines were the only melodic/riff element to most of their songs (David playing primarily rhythm). There are very few bassists in rock who created an instantly recognizable solo bass hook on their band's first hit, as she did with Psycho Killer. She's just a master of riffs, of groove, and of space. Many of their most famous songs hang on her bass riffs - Psycho Killer, Take Me to the River, Once in a Lifetime, Burning Down the House, etc etc not to mention one of the most sampled songs of all-time, Genius of Love.

It doesn't matter that she couldn't play in a Yes cover band, she wouldn't have done that anyway. (And why is it that she always needs to prove something? Could Chris Squire have gotten a job in a Talking Heads cover band? Unlikely.) She is a great bass player, full stop.

Anyway, Roger Waters. Tons of bands can play 'like' Pink Floyd. Yes, maybe it's easy to imitate, but nobody else was playing like that before Roger and Nick . They created it. Is Roger great on his instrument? Eh, probably not. But I don't think it always matters. Rock isn't about precision (ahem although that was the model of bass he played) or technique, though it can help. I'd rather listen to Mojo Nixon than Steely Dan, myself.