Rogue Cronus Magnum II vs McIntosh

Under the cover, the Rogue Cronus Magnum has a much cleaner layout than the MC275 ...

 

Rogue definitely does nice work under the covers, but ARC is the master of doing it right and one of the reasons I am such a fan.

 

@BayouTiger what product is that?

 

Audio Research Ref75

 

That sure looks like a ARC Reference 75 SE.

 

The Se has the KT150's and a few other upgrades, but nearly identical.

 

Rouge makes some fine gear, but they're not the only game in the USA. Don't discount Decware who builds bomb proof gear as well and takes it few notches above what Rogue does.

And you don't have to worry about circuit board mounting of the tube sockets getting hot because ... there are no circuit boards in any of Decware's analog gear (well except for the RIAA equalization board in the ZP3 Phono Preamp, but the rest of that preamp is point to point as well). Each piece of Decware gear is hand soldered, point to point using silver wire, the tube sockets are mounted to the chassis, Jupiter Beeswax caps and excellent output transformers. Not to mention the best warranty in the business "Lifetime" (even for those who buy used Decware gear the lifetime warranty can be transferred over to the new owner for just a couple hundred bucks and the cost of new tubes). Steve D's circuit designs are very unique, even his push-pull amps are designed to sound like Single Ended Triodes with even order harmonics. I've never heard another push-pull that comes as close to SET amps as his designs do.

The downside is that most of his amps are of lower wattage and need fairly efficient speakers. He does make some higher wattage amps such as the Zen Mystery and Zen Torii Mono blocks, but they are getting up there in price. However from the Torii and below I think he has some of the best bang for the buck amps out there for the quality that you get.

Also just wanted to mention to the OP, though it seems like you've settled on the Creek ... from my experience Decware and McIntosh are an excellent pairing and if your speakers are efficient enough will be an awesome combo.

 

How about the new Conrad Johnson CAV-45?

announcing theCAV-45control amplifier | conrad-johnson »

 

Have heard nothing but good things about Decware and the McIntosh 220 and Conrad Johnson CAV -45 are very musical pieces that fly under the radar. Some good ideas worthy of consideration in each case.

 

interesting. 3600 bucks and is a "control amplifier" that eliminate the preamp stage somehow. 45 watts EL34 probably runs in ultralinear mode.

 

The C-J is certainly the antithesis of Mac's current "more is better" feature set. Something very pure about an integrated with a passive front end and just enough inputs, though I haven't been able or see the back panel.

 

I have read from multiple reliable sources that ARC has been cost cutting their products big time- using cheaper grade components across the board.

 

I googled for pics of the back plate - no joy. Read the manual - it was pretty skimpy and again, no diagram of the back. I think this is VERY thin on features - no pre or sub out, for example.

 

I've not seen that, the big cutting at ARC is that they eliminated all of their "affordable" products.The cheapest preamp is now the LS27 at Cheapest amp is the Ref75SE. I own both of these and they are stunning pieces.

 

You're right that the two pieces you own are first rate in terms of sound. Value is up to the consumer. I still think those two pieces are pretty good value. But the revenue generation targets for ARC from their new owners has meant that pricing is way up while parts content has been reduced and power supplies are smaller at any given price point. Compare the photo of the REF 75 to a similar photo of the 1/3 the cost VT 100 mks 1, 2, and 3 of several years ago. The most concerning thing that dealers mention is the sense of discontent and unease at the factory. My experience is that dealers hear a lot and there is often fire where they notice smoke. Mcintosh is also feeling pressure from the same owners. Notice all the lifestyle components and on-line and Best Buy distribution. Not all bad but concerning.

 

Very interesting gear. I already have 2 CJ SS amps and really hope to try something else ...

 

I thought ARC's current owner is some Italian company. McIntosh, Denon and Marantz plus a few other brands are owned by a different private equity firm ...

 

Well, I would expect the new amps to be a bit simpler for a few reasons, not least the KT120 and 150 tubes which can deliver more and the omission of little things like single ended inputs.

I hope things stay together because as crazy as it sounds to think about an $18000 integrated amp, I aspire some day to sell a bunch of my stuff in favor of the GSi75. Top notch amp along with amazing phono and DAC stages in a one box solution.

 

Mac was sold to Fine Sounds some years ago and them the Italians sold it all to a group headed by Mauro Grange, Charlie Randall and a bunch of European bankers a couple years ago.

 

The rumors I hear from friends in the business is ARC has a lot of inventory sitting around in Minnesota.

I don't know that their new 'affordable' pieces are going to help that - not at $7500 each.

 

At the $7500 price point, there are offerings from McIntosh, Pass, Conrad-Johnson and a few others. ARC has not been quite the same since the passing of its founder William Zane Johnson. The decision to sell the company was probably made by his estate ...

Audio Research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia »

 

Bill was still alive when the company was sold in 2009. I really don't see where anything really changed for the worse for ARC until the last buyout. Quadrivia was an investment group and seemed to be pretty hands off. Once the current ownership took over in 2014, things at ARC and Mcintosh started getting shook up quite a bit. I guess time will tell where they take things. I know I don't have a warm, fuzzy about the direction of any of the Fine Sounds lines.

 

I'm hoping Charlie Randall's long history with McIntosh will help in keeping them safe but I am concerned about Audio Research because they don't have anyone with a similar history in their organization.

 

Has ARC ever sold any amp/preamp that is not tube-based?

 

In 1976 Bill Johnson was very worried about the future availability of tubes. So they introduced the SP4 and SP5 preamps and the D100 amp - all solid state.

Stuff was beautiful - that's where the classic 'Audio Research' styling comes from.

Absolute Sound wrote a scathing review and ARC almost went out of business. They came back with the classic SP6 preamp and all was forgiven.