Yeah, I think it'll come down to personal preference for Sabotage. Usually I don't like bright CDs, but cutting down the brightness for the 09 makes the low end stick out too much for me. Anyway. '86 Castle for Sabotage? I did not know such a thing existed !! (Off to try and find one ...)
Not a lot of luck finding an '86 Castle for Sabotage, but I also found that Creative Sounds did that disc too.
Here are some dynamic range numbers for Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Vol. 4: DR13 ... 01 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath 86 Castle DR10 ... 01 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath UK 09 DR13 ... 02 A National Acrobat 86 Castle DR10 ... 02 A National Acrobat UK 09 DR12 ... 05_Killing_Yourself_To_Live vinyl rip DR12 ... 05 Killing Yourself to Live 86 Castle DR9 ..... 05 Killing Yourself To Live UK 09 DR13 ... 08 Spiral Architect 86 Castle DR11 ... 08 Spiral Architect UK 09 ---------------------- DR11 ... 01 Wheels of Confusion 86 Castle DR10 ... 01 Wheels Of Confusion UK 09 DR11 ... 05 Supernaut 86 Castle DR9 ..... 05 Supernaut UK 09 DR12 ... 06 Snowblind 86 Castle DR11 ... 06 Snowblind UK 09 DR14 ... 10 Under the Sun 86 Castle DR11 ... 10 Under The Sun UK 09
My friend has this Castle "Under Wheels of Confusion" 4-CD set, and it sounds really bad. Very bright and harsh, and also a little loud. Avoid.
For kicks, deemphasized two ways. I built my own filter in GoldWave generated from the equation from the actual time constant for deemphasis. DEGW. And then also from WaveEmph. DEWE. I kept the original numbers there for comparison. My GoldWave filter does have some accommodation for upsampling, eq'ing, and then downsampling/dithering. I never did figure out if WaveEmph does that. DR13 ... 01 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath 86 Castle => 12 degw, 11 dewe DR10 ... 01 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath UK 09 DR13 ... 02 A National Acrobat 86 Castle => 12 degw dewe DR10 ... 02 A National Acrobat UK 09 DR12 ... 05_Killing_Yourself_To_Live vinyl rip DR12 ... 05 Killing Yourself to Live 86 Castle => 11 degw dewe DR9 ..... 05 Killing Yourself To Live UK 09 DR13 ... 08 Spiral Architect 86 Castle => 12 degw dewe DR11 ... 08 Spiral Architect UK 09 ---------------------- DR11 ... 01 Wheels of Confusion 86 Castle => 11 degw dewe DR10 ... 01 Wheels Of Confusion UK 09 DR11 ... 05 Supernaut 86 Castle => 11 degw dewe DR9 ..... 05 Supernaut UK 09 DR12 ... 06 Snowblind 86 Castle => 12 degw dewe DR11 ... 06 Snowblind UK 09 DR14 ... 10 Under the Sun 86 Castle => 12 degw dewe DR11 ... 10 Under The Sun UK 09 So deemphasized, there is a still difference between the '86 Castles for SBS and V4, and the 2009's, but not a lot. Some listening next !!
Funny that 1986 Castle never comes up for discussion for Sabotage. Two tracks out of the 8 have tape problems. But for the rest of the album I think the 1986 wins. "The Writ" sounds amazing on it!
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath: Rolled off low end like for Sabotage. (I wonder if all the '09's have this?) I think I now know why they did this. Well, I think they did this because it might be an attempt to "tighten up" Geezer's bass guitar tone. Less low end flabbiness. Maybe. But why that boost for Killing Yourself to Live? The UK 09 sounds pretty good for this one too, but I still prefer the '86 Castle. Vol. 4: Rolled off low end again. Snowblind is another singular track with an odd boost in it. (I double checked this all the way back to the disc to make sure I didn't add an extra de-emphasis in there anywhere.) The UK 09 is still pretty good, maybe not up to the level of SBS, but it's not horrible. Still like the '86 Castle more though. Paranoid, Master of Reality, and Black Sabbath next? Maybe not. When I first got the UK '09's, I decided that I really liked MoR, I liked Paranoid less, and the 09 for the 1st one even less. So personally, I've stayed with Roland's hybrid version for the 1st one. Of the Paranoids I've listened to, I still like the '86 Castle the best, and for MoR, the UK 09 wins. But maybe if I have time, I'll try to do some DR #'s for them and the EQ graphs. I'm now kind of curious about that low end roll off for the others.
The 23PD of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath has an annoying drop out in the title track around the 1:20 mark...
I was listening to the 1996 Castle remasters and it has to be said that although they have compression added, the sonic frequencies are definitely closer to the vinyl records than any other remaster... I have some needledrops, and the guitars and drums on Symptom Of The Universe, just to mention one track, is pratically the same, except it's obviously louder - but not overly loud. Same goes to the last 2 Ozzy albums. I REALLY like the Andy Pearce remasters better than any other, but it's another artistic input, since the sound is a little darker than the originals.
What are the other two SHM-SACDs you feel are worth the money? I am going to guess one of them is Who's Next.
^^^ I might guess Blind Faith for the other, but ... Rick? Also, the Creative Sounds version of MoR has the same mastering as the '86 Castle, but the PE flag is correct.
OK, I now have my '86 Castle for Sabotage and I think this is a fabulous sounding disc. But I am not hearing any tape issues with those two tracks. On The Writ though, the left channel has a reduced volume from about 6:18 to 6:48, but even with that problem (which I'm going to try and fix in a wave editor), this is a great sounding disc. Yesstiles and Eelkiller (from the other thread): what exactly should I be listening for? I first listened casually at normal volume, and then cranked with just those two songs in case the problem was more subtle, through headphones both times, and I don't hear anything specific ... No Blow on the Jug at the end, but that's fixable too.
The start of Symptom of The Universe sounded like there was a major tape issue on one channel (left IIRC), the drums sounded real muffled and then seemed to clear as the song progressed. Funny thing is my original Canadian vinyl was the same and when I bought an import LP the problem was not there. Megalomania, I can't recall specifics off hand I got rid of the disc ASAP. The rest of the disc was not bad but those 2 songs are my favorites on the LP and the WB and Pearse remaster will do me fine. If you are not hearing it maybe they corrected it or it is time for me to get a hearing aid.
^^^ The WB is very close. But I understand what Roland says when he says he thinks the WB is a little bright. The '86 Castle is "different", because for some tracks it's darker than the WB, but for others it's brighter, but it's not a harsh or fatiguing brightness, it's just a more "clear" brightness. Hard to explain. This might be one instance where I am personally convinced that the '86 Castle comes from a better tape generation, and hence there's an audible improvement. Keep in mind, that's different than a problem with the tape during the transfer itself. With what Eelkiller said above, and hopefully Yesstiles chimes in, I'll relisten to the '86 Castle and see if I can hear what they are hearing. But for now, it's my favorite version of Sabotage.
Crap. Eelkiller, yesstiles, and Jeff offline, ruined my parade. Listening casually, I couldn't hear it. Even intently on those two tracks just by themselves. But back to back with the US WB, at the beg of Megolomania, the '86 Castle is kind of muffled and there is a lack of detail for the high end. I didn't check to see where it changes, but by the end of the song the problem is gone. So I guess I would need to decide between the US WB by itself, or a hybrid of the '86 Castle for all but those two songs. And then there's still the problem of the left channel for that 30s in the Writ that would need to be fixed too. Crap. I actually did get the Creative Sounds for this Sabotage too, and while I'd consider it close to being the equal of the US WB for tonality, but not quite as bright, it has different tape issues. (Dropouts and such.)
So overall, would you still consider the WB the best one? I really don't find the WB all that bright. Maybe compared to 2009 remaster which I find kind of compressed.
For the tracks that aren't messed up on the '86 Castle, I do like that one a hair better than the US WB. But if you ask me to pick the best entire CD, I guess my favorite is still the good ole US WB.
