Sorry about that, their source was obviously a really bad one for that album. You did not hear any differences on Symptom of the Universe? On the one I had the drum sound cleared eventually (they were muffled at the start). I can't get the exact time the drums cleared as the CD went on sale real quick and I never care to listen to it again. Hopefully it is not going anywhere but back to the owner's shelf.
Hello, The other 2 are Wheel's Of Fire and Who's Next. Interesting. Thanks Kevin. I'm set for now with the MOR SHM-SACD, 2009 Pearce and the CDR I made with the correct flag on the 1986 Castle. l'll probably rip the SHM-SACD via PS3 and dither it down to redbook as well.
I had left the CDs at work and just had what I ripped to my PC to compare, and one of them was Megolomania. I believe you about Symptom though because Jeff also specifically mentioned that one. '86 Castle for Sabotage: they are out there, just have to be patient. I got mine from UK eBay for $20 shipped.
Looking at the number of Sabbath CD's in the database I put together I think I can live without that one. Thanks anyways.
Maybe the 1986 CALCD fixed the tape issue on Sabotage that was on the 1986 NELCD reissue? Anyone have both?
So - my turn to stir the pot and ask some questions. Die hard Sabbath fan first of all - questing for the best versions... I just got the SHM-CD of Vol 4, Sabotage, and Heaven and Hell. My understanding is that Vol 4 and Sabotage (not sure of HNH) are based on the "2009 UK Sanctuary" mastering. Is that right? I compared the SHM-CD of Sabotage to my 1986 Castle (NELCD 6018) The Castle CD starts off muffled on Hole in the Sky(top end sounds rolled off and Ward's cymbals are veiled/recessed back in the mix), but then by Megalomania the sonics seem clearer/cleaner and by Thrill of it All - it sounds pretty darn good. Anyone else notice this? The SHM-CD is WAY Louder and sounds top end boosted - making it uncrankable. Might be good for low level listening for top/bottom eq while dusting the coffee table or organizing the magazine rack, but who wants to do that to Sabbath?? The SHM-CD of HnH sounds pretty darn good and crankable - I think it has good balance top to bottom. There is some wicked bass drum energy going on in this CD - you turn this up to "ref" levels and the room starts to shake if you have a good sub.
The trouble with the Sabotage 1986 Castle is the best songs sound crappy, yes it improves as one tries to proceed through it but by the time Megalomania gets going I wanted to use it as skeet. Get the Pearse remaster or original WB. Slight improvement.
It could be that the SHM CDs you have are from the 2009 remasters. I don't care for the 2009 Sabotage (Pearce remaster). HH I do like, and 4 is said to sound alright, also.
Hmmm...sounds like you and I have similar tastes then. The CDJapan page has some info and a blurb saying that Sabotage used the 2009 Sanctuary UK remastering, so if that is indeed the Pearce version, then it is aptly named...cuz when I crank the SHM-CD of Sabotage it sounds like my ears are being "pearced" So, which Sabotage do you prefer on CD? [nm - saw your post...thanks!]
I think it is the one now selling for 5 GBP on Amazon.co.uk http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Sabbath+sabotage It would be less when VAT is removed. But sounds like you have it and hate it so my apologies. Get a cheap WB disc and try it on for size, most here like it.
Erik, Is there any english text in the liner notes that confirms this to be the same mastering as the UK disc? I assume CD Japan is probaly correct but you never know. Thanks in advance
Some English liner notes: Mastered by Hitoshi Takiguchi (Universal Mastering Studios) ... DSD remaster 2009 That's about all I see in English regarding the source
See post 43. Only Symptom of the Universe and Megolomania seem to have the tape problems. Not Hole in the Sky and Don't Start (Too Late), or side two, except for the 30s problem I noted in the Writ. I think HitS sounds fantastic on the '86 Castle. ??
OK, sounds like it has been "touched up" as I don't find the UK disc to sound as you described, plus Takiguchi has nothing to do with the UK remasters. I was going to add this as I love the album so much but now that I have heard your review I think I will stick with the cheaper version. Thanks
I don't think what I'm hearing is a tape problem, but rather possibly for how each *whole song* was captured and laid down on the first generation tapes. The mix for Hole in the Sky, the whole song, sounds muddy to my ears. It is really dramatic and noticable if you start to listen to Hole in the Sky, then skip directly to Thrill of it All. The sonics are totally different to my ears as if they decided to re-mike, mix, whatever between 'takes'.
I can believe that each side (or even song) might have been mixed or mastered differently across the album, but I did directly compare HitS because it's actually one of my favorite Sabbath tunes of all time, between the US WB, Pearce CD, and the '86 Castle. I liked the '86 Castle the best by a small amount over the US WB. Very relaxed but powerful sounding. Might just be different personal preferences at work. I'm too lazy to go back and check, but have you heard the US WB? You might actually like that one a little more than the '86 Castle.
After some searching around here, it seems that Takiguchi is renowned for uncontrolled restraint for treble boosting. Of the 3 Sabbath SHM-CDs I got - two of them exhibit the treble ice-pick treatment by Takiguchi, Vol 4 and Sabotage. HnH has no such re/mastering credits, and only mentions "2010 Sanctuary", so I would assume that means this release used a direct 'as is' transfer from a Sanctuary master? It certainly does not sound like it has been tampered w/ in the same way as Vol 4 and Sabotage. Can anyone confirm if there was a remastering for the SHM-CD of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath? I can't find anything definitive on the web if this was remastered by Takiguchi.
What happened is that Uni. Japan issued the whole Sabbath catalog again in 2009, and the Deluxe Editions for the first three albums were out but not the others. So for the first three albums they used the Pearce Deluxe remasters pressed on SHM but Vol. 4 through NSD it was apparently Takiguchi just tweaking the crap out of the same Castle remasters that had been around since the mid 90's. I heard a couple of those and they were scary bad. Heaven and Hell 2CD SHM came later and just used the Deluxe Edition (Pearce) mastering.
Sorry for being late with my reply to your question. No, I have not heard the SHM CD of "Born Again". I once had the original version and now I have the Deluxe Edition. I think the Deluxe Edition is quite decent. Can't compare it anymore to the old CD, since I don't have that one anymore. It is not one of my favorite albums, and I bought the DE when it was relatively cheap on Amazon.co.uk just to fill that hole in my collection, plus I sort of wanted to have the live material with Ian Gillan. The album is better than I had it remembered. I will stay with the DE unless someone who's ears I fully trust convince me otherwise. Here's a wave-form of the first track "Trashed" from the Deluxe Edition.
The SHM of Born Again is the Deluxe Edition, so it comes down to the whole "Does SHM of the same CD sound better?" thing.
This makes sense now as I don't find the Pearce Sabotage to have the same qualities as what you describe for the Japan disc. At 5 GBP the Sabotage UK disc is a great deal IMO.
