Interesting I was wondering about that too I haven’t had a chance to compare I remember hearing the same sources were used though
Don't have too much to add except I have this odd 80s "Sabbath Collection" cd. Noticeably the most "booming" version of 'Paranoid' I've got.
Maybe rather than gathering the tracks from the album tapes afresh, they simply used the same tape for the Greatest Hits CD that they also used for the LPs of the same title? Same tracklist, except "After Forever" and the live track were added for the CD: Early LP release: Black Sabbath - Greatest Hits CD release: Black Sabbath - Greatest Hits
FYI: I just started a new thread asking where the tape problems/drop-outs on most post-1990 releases of Evil Woman that have been mentioned here several times do exactly occur during the song: Black Sabbath - tape flaws or drop-outs on "Evil Woman" - where exactly do they occur?
I am sure we talked about this at some point, but I don't remember: does any of the 2014/2016/2017 Wicked Worlds the low end summed like most tracks have on the 2012 remasters?
The Hdtracks WW does not. It was most likely mastered separately from the 2012 vinyl mastering where the albums were done. The 2012 vinyl set used the crappy Euro source so that’s the one which would’ve been mastered at the time of the albums. Then WW from the better source was done to include in the hdtracks as a US sale. They matched the brightness of the albums but didn’t do the bass summing they did when mastering the others for vinyl. WW ‘16/TUC has all the frequencies up to around 5-7khz or so narrowed (channels bleeding into each other) but not collapsed to mono.
Thank you, this is very helpful. Today I checked the 16/48 FLAC/MQA version of WW contained on the bonus memory stick that was included in the 2017 Ten Year War LP box set. It is the very crappy European source too. After all, even though the 2012 Pearce remasters - which weren't originally intended to be used for any digital release at all - somehow (and regrettably) seem to be the default mastering in both Europe and America now (not sure about elsewhere), the old Europe vs. America split apparently hasn't disappeared: Universal (or is it BMG now? I don't really understand what happened to Sanctuary) still do not seem to own a proper tape or digital source for Wicked World (or the Paranoid Quad mix). Regarding the s/t hybrid I am currently preparing to compile (see my recent Evil Woman and Wicked World shootouts): based on my listening experience and tests so far and your comments regarding the narrowing of frequencies on the 2106/2017 releases, I am currently leaning towards the 2014 HDtracks as my favorite version of WW. Its super-strict stereo separation needs getting used to, but I like its radicalness, and obviously this is how it sounds on the tape - which fits the concept of the flat-transferred SACDs that I like so much. Thus, my s/t hybrid will likely be compiled as follows: Japan SHM-SACD (minus Evil Woman) Evil Woman from the 1989 Japan 23PD-133_Vertigo CD (possibly EQed to better fit in with the sound of the SACD) Wicked World from the 2014 HDtracks hi-res release (possibly EQed to better fit in with the sound of the SACD; Azimuth fixed)
I just did my shootout for these 3 versions. Before that, I used the Foobar bit-compare addon to compare the original CDs from UK, US, Holland and Japan to each other, and they all turned out to be digitally identical after correcting for offset. I used the UK CD for the shootout. I applied ReplayGain (track gain) to all 3 tracks in order to correct for perceived volume differences. During the shootout with Master of Insanity, I quickly noted that one of these 3 versions is mastered much darker than the others, and based on your comment (I didn't really remember the last test I did) I assumed that would likely be the Deluxe. Generally I preferred that dark-sounding version, but at some spots I found the dark-sounding version a bit too bassy, so I chose the more natural-sounding of the two brighter versions at those spots. When I finished and checked the shootout results, I was very surprised to see that the dark-sounding version was actually the HDtracks. Another surprise was that my second favorite version was the original CD and not the Deluxe. Both are similarly bright, but somehow I found the sound of the original CD significantly more natural than the Deluxe (even though it has been suggested that both are nearly identical except for their volume level, see Roland's comment below). Completed shootouts: 16 Individual test results from among 3 possible files: "A" chosen: 10 times (62.50%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples dehumanizer\Master of Insanity (1992 Dehumanizer_2013 HDtracks_Rhino-Warner_The Rules of Hell_24-192) - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) "B" chosen: 1 time (6.25%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples dehumanizer\Master Of Insanity (1992 Dehumanizer_2011 EU_2CD_EIRSCDX 1064_EMI) - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) "C" chosen: 5 times (31.25%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples dehumanizer\Master Of Insanity (1992 Dehumanizer_1992 UK_9 26965-2_Reprise) - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) Regarding the HDtracks vs. the Deluxe, I believe you might have made a mistake there. After finishing the shootout, I did a little more (non-blind) listening to both MOI and After All (The Dead), and actually both the original CD and the Deluxe sound significantly brighter than the 2013 HDtracks. I find the HDtracks a little too bassy at some points, but overall I prefer it over the rather thin and bright-sounding original and Deluxe.
Hmmm, maybe the Dehumanizer SHM-CD is different from the original European Deluxe after all? Here's the DR values for the original Deluxe: Album details - Dynamic Range Database
Let me know in case you would like me to send you samples from the original Deluxe CD. I don't have the SHM-CD, so I cannot compare myself. Possibly the SHM-CD got some further treatment...
Born Again shootout! Completed shootouts: 19 Individual test results from among 4 possible files: "A" chosen: 0 times (0.00%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples born again\Zero The Hero (1983 Born Again_1996 UK_ESM CD 334_Castle) - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) "B" chosen: 8 times (42.11%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples born again\Zero The Hero (1983 Born Again_1990 Japan_PHCR-2054_Vertigo + Nippon Phonogram) - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) "C" chosen: 11 times (57.89%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples born again\Zero The Hero (1983 Born Again_2011 Germany for UK_2CD_2770406_Sanctuary_disc 1) - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) "D" chosen: 0 times (0.00%) (file: D:\Uploads for Filehosting\samples born again\Zero The Hero (1983 Born Again_1987 Germany_814 271-2_Vertigo) - BEGINNING EDITED - TRACK GAIN APPLIED.wav) Basically, if you are - like me - a person generally leaning towards dark rather than bright sound, and if you have either the original Japanese CD (PHCR-2054) or the 2011 Deluxe, you can sell or throw away both the original WG Vertigo CD and the 1996 Castle remaster. (The European 2011 Deluxe 2xCD and the Japan SHM-2xCD share the same mastering.) Looks like I am now slightly leaning towards the Deluxe since it sounds a tad fuller to me, but actually the PHCR-2054 and the Deluxe sound very, very similar to me - so much so that I am wondering if Pearce possibly listened to the early CDs before doing the Deluxe and decided to master it similarly to the PHCR-2054. Nonetheless, to those who have and like the PHCR-2054, I recommend to check out the Deluxe as well. If you'd like me to share samples, leave me a message. Btw, looks like Born Again never got a US or Canadian domestic digital release - cassette tape and LP releases, that's all. Brazil, Mexico and Argentina all got at least one digital release (all post-2000), and that's it for the Americas.
Nope, same dynamic range. It’s just the Deluxe Edition on SHM-CD in a paper sleeve. As I said before, slightly less dynamic, but better sound imo. I don’t find the HDTracks dark at all, honestly. Guess I’ll have to relisten.
The way you described the sound of the HDtracks vs the Deluxe, it really sounded the opposite of what I heard when I listened to them (though it is certainly true that the HDtracks is more dynamic). Let us know what you think after giving them another listen. I am surprised that Pearce didn't master this album darker.
I am still puzzled because they sound so similar. Almost like they took the Japan CD and very slightly remastered it.
I just received the Castle Greatest Hits, yesterday. I have the Intercord version of Paranoid out, too. Between tonight and Friday, I'll buckle down and makes some comparisons.
My go to the Japan SHM 2 disc which uses the same mastering as the deluxe. One day maybe they’ll locate the missing 24 track master and can do a proper remix / remaster.
