Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time: Song-By-Song Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by KJTC, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. Jamsterdammer

    Jamsterdammer The Great CD in the Sky

    Location:
    Málaga, Spain
    Big Mama Thornton - 'Hound Dog'

    I like it well enough, but can't help wondering if this song would have made the list had Elvis never recorded it.
     
  2. Popmartijn

    Popmartijn Senior Member

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Continuing with me catching up. Neil Young is a bit hit or miss for me. I like some of his songs, dislike some others and there are also quite a few that do nothing for me. After The Gold Rush is one of the first category. It is a very stately song and suits Neil's thin voice. Not good enough for the top 10 but a laudable effort.
     
  3. Popmartijn

    Popmartijn Senior Member

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I don't think it requires a disclaimer but still, I'm a huge U2 fan. That said, I was a bit ambivalent about I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For for a long time. I considered it a nice song, but not all that special. Great that it hit #1 in the USA but it wasn't a real standout, not like their previous single (and #1 hit as well) With Or Without You. Over time my appreciation for the song began to rise. So much so that by the time the band went on their The Joshua Tree Redux Tour in 2017-2019 this was one of my favourite songs from the album (next to Exit, though nothing can eclipse Where The Streets Have No Name live), surpassing even With Or Without You. The gentle, uplifting groove with the clear guitar notes provide a wonderful backing for Bono's soaring vocals. You can feel his yearning and his amazement of his quest. And even though I'm not religious myself I can only say, "Hallelujah!"
    With it now being one of my favourite songs ever it's no wonder that it ends up high in my personal top 10.

    1. Pearl Jam - Alive
    2. U2 - I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
    3. Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up
    4. Prince - 1999
    5. Iggy Pop - Lust For Life
    6. Lady Gaga - Bad Romance
    7. Depeche Mode - Enjoy The Silence
    8. The Temptations - Papa Was A Rollin' Stone
    9. Pet Shop Boys - West End Girls
    10. Metallica - Enter Sandman

    It was apparently not the season for The Zombies to hold onto their top 10 spot. So now they're not there.
     
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  4. torcan

    torcan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Everybody Wants to Rule the World

    I was familiar with Tears For Fears before this song hit because a couple of my classmates liked some of their earlier songs. I was hesitant when this debuted on the charts because their previous songs weren't really my thing, but this is great. It was among my Top 10 favorite songs of 1985 and I ended up buying the album after the second single, Shout, came out.

    Just to follow a bit on what @tim_neely stated earlier, this 45 did have a picture sleeve in Canada (I point this out because usually the US and Canada were in lock step with singles releases and picture sleeves). I can only guess it was because their songs from previous albums were decent-sized hits here and they had a bit more of a following when this was released.

    Never get tired of hearing this one!
     
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  5. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    Hound Dog (Big Mama Thornton)
    I suppose there is historical importance to this recording, but honestly, this is quite inferior to Elvis Presley's version. Elvis packs so much more energy and his recording really rocks, while Big Mama's is more standard blues. If Elvis version appears, it will make my top 500. This version will not.
    RATING: 3/5

    My Current top 75 List:
    1. Time Of The Season-The Zombies
    2. Rosalita-Bruce Springsteen
    3. Help-Beatles
    4. Lola-Kinks
    5. California Dreamin-Mama's & Papa's
    6. Loser-Beck
    7. House Of The Rising Sun-The Animals
    8. Free Bird-Lynyrd Skynyrd
    9. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For-U2
    10. White Rabbit-Jefferson Airplane
    11. Criminal-Fiona Apple
    12. Go Your Own Way-Fleetwood Mac
    13. Don't Fear The Reaper-Blue Oyster Cult
    14. You're So Vain - Carly Simon
    15. Buddy Holly-Weezer
    16. Father And Son-Cat Stevens
    17. Surrender-Cheap Trick
    18. Cannonball-Breeders
    19. Gloris-Them
    20. Peggy Sue-Buddy Holly
    21. Ripple-Grateful Dead
    22. Under The Bridge-Red Hot Chili Peppers
    23. Up On A Roof-The Drifters
    24. Under Pressure-Queen & David Bowie
    25. Dreaming-Blondie
    26. Just What I Needed-The Cars
    27. Heartbreak Hotel-Elvis Presley
    28. I'm A Believer-The Monkees
    28. Papa Was A Rollin Stone-The Temptations
    30. Scenes From An Italian Restaurant-Billy Joel
    31. Help Me-Joni Mitchell
    32. Get Lucky-Daft Punk ft. Pharell Williams
    33. After The Gold Rush-Neil Young
    34. She's Gone-Hall & Oates
    35. Heavy Metal Drummer-Wilco
    36. Enter Sandman-Metallica
    37. Hungry Like The Wolf -Duran Duran
    38. Paranoid-Black Sabbath
    39. Alive-Pearl Jam
    40. Summertime Blues-Eddie Cochran
    41. Green Onions-Booker T & the MG's
    42. Everlong-Foo Fighters
    43. 1999-Prince
    44. All I Have To Do Is Dream-Everly Brothers
    45. Portions For Foxes-Rilo Kiley
    46. It's Too Late-Carole King
    47. Allison-Elvis Costello
    48. Summertime Sadness-Lana Del Rey
    49. I Can't Help Myself-Four Tops
    50. Move On Up-Curtis Mayfield
    51. Oy Como Va-Santana
    52. Baby Love - Supremes
    53. Without You - Nilsson
    54. Rapper's Delight-Sugarhill Gang
    55. Fade Into You-Mazzy Star
    56. Come As You Are-Nirvana
    57. God Save The Queen-Sex Pistols
    58. Da Doo Run Run-The Crystals
    59. Merry Go Round-Kasey Musgraves
    60. Little Red Corvette-Prince
    61. Black Hole Sun-Soundgarden
    62. Bennie And The Jets-Elton John
    63. Limelight-Rush
    64. Passionate Kisses-Lucinda Williams
    65. Our Lips Are Sealed-Go Go's
    66. Crying-Roy Orbison
    67. Midnight Train To Georgia-Gladys Knight & Pips
    68. Sheena Is A Punk Rocker-Ramones
    69. Everybody Wants To Rule The World-Tears For Fears
    70. Promised Land-Chuck Berry
    71. Because The Night-Patti Smith
    72. Pictures Of You-The Cure
    73. All I Ever Wanted-Depeche Mode
    74. Brass In Pocket-Pretenders
    75. Mr. Brightside-The Killers
     
  6. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    Hound Dog: This isn't my kind of music by any stretch of the imagination (neither is Elvis's cover, which I listened to for comparison purposes. I thought it had already shown up on the list, but a search didn't find it). Nevertheless I think today's entry is well done, with a good beat, and that winding lead guitar sounds just right throughout.

    Elvis's version is certainly energetic, but it's also more abrasive, and at this point I'd say I prefer Big Mama Thornton's more laid-back original, which hangs together extremely well. Not bad at all for 1952 which was awfully early; even I wasn't born yet. I noticed the writing credit to Lieber and Stroller and Otis ... oops!
     
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  7. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    "Hound Dog"

    In some ways, the history behind the record is more interesting than the record itself.

    First, this was the first songwriting hit for Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, whose name was misspelled as "Stroller" on the 78 label. But it took years for the two young composers to get full credit.

    Wikipedia has the full sordid history of the suits and countersuits behind "Hound Dog." First, the record label has Leiber, "Stroller," and bandleader Johnny Otis credited as songwriters, but a copyright registration claimed that Don Robey, president of Peacock Records, and Willie Mae Thornton wrote it. That wasn't finally settled until after Elvis Presley's 1956 hit version, and even as late as 2000, Otis claimed he wrote some of the song.

    Because Otis was signed to Federal, a subsidiary of King Records, at the time the original "Hound Dog" came out, Syd Nathan of King decided he wanted a part of the action. In the end, he didn't get it.

    Then there were all the "answer records" that came out in the wake of Thornton's hit, the most prominent of which was "Bear Cat" by Rufus Thomas on Sun. It was Sun's first hit, but it almost bankrupted the label; part of the reason Sam Phillips sold Presley to RCA in 1955 was to pay off the last of the debts from losing the lawsuit two years earlier. Evidently, "answer records" had been a long-time bane of the recording industry; the new precedent was that if an old song had new lyrics added to it, the composer of the new lyrics could not claim authorship without permission of the original copyright holder.

    What a mess.

    All the post-release stuff obscured that the recording itself was no picnic to record.

    It's said that Leiber and Stoller wrote the song specifically with Thornton in mind, and they whipped it up in about 15 minutes on August 12, 1952. The next day was the session; Thornton wanted to record it in a crooner's voice rather than the rough vocal that Leiber and Stoller had in mind. Once one of them demonstrated the effect they wanted, Thornton got it and complied. Otis was supposed to be the producer, but Thornton's drummer couldn't get the pattern he wanted, so Otis filled in on drums, thus leaving Leiber and Stoller, both of whom were only 19 years old at the time, to produce the session.

    Though recorded on August 13, 1952, "Hound Dog" wasn't released until February 1953. Once it came out, it was an instant hit; it hit the top of both Billboard R&B charts (best sellers and most played in jukeboxes), and it also got to #1 in Cash Box, which had only one R&B chart. It was by far Thornton's biggest hit.

    Of the parodies, "Bear Cat" hit #3 on both Billboard R&B charts and #5 in Cash Box. A country parody, "(How Much Is) That Hound Dog in the Window" by Homer & Jethro, which was based on Patti Page's hit "The Doggie in the Window," got to #1 on the Cash Box C&W best-seller chart (#4 in jukeboxes, #10 disc jockeys) and #2 on the Billboard C&W sales chart (#3 in jukeboxes, #10 disc jockeys).

    By 1953, all the major labels already were releasing their singles on both 45 and 78. Independent labels were more selective, as fewer of their customers had switched to 45s; for a while, only the big hits were on both formats. Some of the non-hits never made it to 45. Well, Peacock did issue "Hound Dog" on a 45 (catalog number 5-1612) with "Night Mare" on the flip side:

    [​IMG]

    In 1956, in the wake of Elvis' hit version, Peacock re-released the song with the same catalog number, but with a different B-side, "Rock a Bye Baby."

    ---

    I'm not going to delve too deeply into the Elvis Presley version, because this entry is the Big Mama Thornton version. But if not for Elvis, this song would be one of those played on obscure late-night weekend early R&B shows on public radio like the one I recall hearing years ago as I drove the Ohio Turnpike south of Cleveland. Come to think of it, it actually is; I don't think I've ever heard this on mainstream radio. I think the first time I heard the original was on a volume of Time-Life's original The Rock 'n' Roll Era series, on a vinyl box set called Roots of Rock: 1945-1956.

    It's fascinating to listen to the music that forward-thinking folks listened to in the 1950s while their more "square" friends crooned and swooned to Teresa Brewer and Eddie Fisher. Nothing wrong with either of them; it's just that no one would think of their 1950s hit music as cutting edge.

    I found several of these "roots of rock" recordings fascinating and exciting enough to find homes on A Few of My Favorite Things. "Sixty Minute Man" by the Dominoes -- which was such a big R&B hit that the original version crossed over to the pop charts -- is one, as is Joe Turner's original version of "Shake, Rattle and Roll." I don't think "Hound Dog" by Big Mama Thornton is in that same league.

    It's cool to hear once in a while, but I still prefer Presley's version, with the obvious snarl in his voice and with D.J. Fontana's machine-gun drumming. After "Heartbreak Hotel" made the list, I pulled a bunch of Elvis' 1950s stuff and put it in the queue for future volumes of A Few of My Favorite Things. One of those is his version of "Hound Dog."
     
  8. troggy

    troggy Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow

    Location:
    Benton, Illinois
    Elvis's version was the one on previous editions of this list.
     
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  9. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    317. Bob Dylan, 'Visions of Johanna'
    1966
    WRITER(S):Bob Dylan

    In early 1966, Dylan decamped to Nashville to record Blonde on Blonde with a crew of local studio pros assembled by producer Bob Johnston. In their very first late-night session, they fleshed out this seven-minute meditation on unrequited desire. “‘Far out,’ would have been the words I would have used at the time,” recalled Bill Atkins, who played keyboard. Joan Baez claimed the song, originally titled “Seems Like a Freeze-Out,” was about her; if so, she left quite a mark on Dylan; he’s rarely sounded so transcendently dejected.
     
  10. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    "Visions of Johanna":

     
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  11. danasgoodstuff

    danasgoodstuff Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I like B&B, mostly because I think the Nashville cats play their asses off, but I don’t think I would put this on my songs list ahead of the rest of the album
     
  12. Jamsterdammer

    Jamsterdammer The Great CD in the Sky

    Location:
    Málaga, Spain
    Bob Dylan - 'Visions of Johanna'

    I know this one features high on many lists of best Bob Dylan songs. However, I'm one of those who simply don't "get" Dylan. His lyrics are of course fabulous, but I just don't dig the music and his singing. I don't dislike songs like "Visions of Johanna" and a few others, but they leave me fairly cold and I have never felt the urge to seek out any of his albums. I do have a compilation, which I rarely ever play. All this to say that while Dylan definitely belongs in a list like this with multiple entries, I'm not going to make any comment on whether or not this or any other song is at the right spot. In my own list, I might just include "Like A Rolling Stone" somewhere, out of respect for the man.
     
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  13. Popmartijn

    Popmartijn Senior Member

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    What a coincidence that Visions Of Johanna is featured in the countdown today as it's also Bob Dylan's birthday today. So happy birthday, Bob! :cheers:

    I'm quite a big Bob Dylan fan, though certainly not so fanatic that I want to have everything he has released. I skipped his Bootleg Series archive release that focused on this period as those albums (Bringing It All Back Home, Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde On Blonde) are sufficient for me. There are quite a few great songs on those albums and on Blonde On Blonde specifically. But Visions Of Johanna is not one of my favourites on it. I can appreciate it as being an important song, but it's not one I will put high on a list of top Dylan songs.
    My top 10 thus remains unchanged.

    1. Pearl Jam - Alive
    2. U2 - I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
    3. Curtis Mayfield - Move On Up
    4. Prince - 1999
    5. Iggy Pop - Lust For Life
    6. Lady Gaga - Bad Romance
    7. Depeche Mode - Enjoy The Silence
    8. The Temptations - Papa Was A Rollin' Stone
    9. Pet Shop Boys - West End Girls
    10. Metallica - Enter Sandman
     
  14. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    "Visions of Johanna"

    The recording of this song was far more complicated than the short blurb that introduced it.

    Bob Dylan is said to have written it during the great East Coast blackout of November 9, 1965, but that may just be a story. Regardless, he did attempt to record it on November 30 of that year in New York with The Hawks as his backing musicians. In all, they went through 14 takes, but Dylan still felt it wasn't what he was hearing in his mind. One of the completed takes from that session was released on an early Bootleg Series collection, and all 14 were issued on a later one.

    After moving the sessions to Nashville, with only Al Kooper (keyboards) and Robbie Robertson (guitar) joining him from New York, everything came together. Joe South, who had some hits of his own in 1969-70, was the bassist, and Charlie McCoy (harmonica, guitar, bass), Wayne Moss (guitar), and Kenny Buttrey (drums) also took part.

    At 7 minutes and 33 seconds, it was one of Dylan's longest songs to that point. But it wasn't even the longest on Blonde on Blonde (that distinction goes to the side-long "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands"). Five singles were taken from the album, both before and after its release, and six different songs charted from it, but "Visions of Johanna" was not one of them.

    ---

    It's been years since I played Blonde on Blonde, thus it had been years since I heard "Visions of Johanna" before today. The lyrics are interesting and evocative, but the song as a whole just doesn't do it for me.

    When it comes to Bob Dylan, his peak was "Like a Rolling Stone," which I presume we'll hear from on this list, because it always makes "greatest singles of all time" lists. Several of his other songs are also among my own favorites. I don't dislike this by any means, but I can't imagine listening to it frequently.
     
  15. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    Visions of Johanna: Ya know, I hate to diss Bob on his b'day, may he have many more of them, and he really is one of the greats, but I don't think this song works very well. The music is quite alright, on the one hand it might be borderline bland but it does have a nice solid little mid-paced groove that is definitely more attractive than not. However the song is mostly about the lyrics, and in this case they seem to have less coherence than usual. I think there are quite a few duds in there too (e. g. the segments whose rhymes begin with "gall", "freeze" and "showed"). It's like he chose the lines' final words to rhyme first, and then filled in the lines afterwards. You could write six or six hundred verses that way if you wanted to. Even I might be able to do it, if I remembered to avoid moon-June-spoon. The melodies have an octave leap in each of the first couple of lines of the verses plus at least one more towards the end, all of which also sound forced. His "speak-singing" style doesn't bother me, it never has, although I've heard better examples of it. I'm led to believe Visions is regarded by the critics and / or the masses as one of his best songs, but I'm left scratching my head.
     
  16. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    316. The Shangri-Las, 'Leader of the Pack'
    1964
    WRITER(S):George Francis Morton, Jeff Barry, Ellie Greenwich

    The Shangri-Las, the tough, white girl group among mainly churchgoing Black ones, capped the early-Sixties trend for teen tragedies with their biggest hit. Producer-songwriter Shadow Morton got inspired while shopping for a motorcycle, telling collaborator Jeff Barry to start a song for the Shangri-Las about a biker and “this girl [who] sees him, and she falls in love with him.” Barry objected, saying that DJs would avoid glamorizing such a figure, so Morton improvised an ending: “He … dies.”
     
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  17. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    "Leader of the Pack," the correct single length (even the45prof has this wrong, and he rarely messes up):

     
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  18. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block

    I was lucky enough to see Big Mama Thornton live in 1969 and of course she sang “Hound Dog”.
    She had a very confident, take no prisoners persona.

    It’s goofy the random things I remember. She was still “big” in 1969. Later in life I think she got very skinny, illness related I assume.

    She wore a tan blouse and tan pants and a tan cowboy hat. Why I remember this, I have no idea.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
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  19. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    "Visions Of Johanna" (Bob Dylan)
    I'm a much bigger fan of Dylan the writer than I am of Dylan the singer. I would have several of his songs in my top 500 by others, most notably Hendrix "All Along The Watchtower", The Byrds "Mr Tambourine Man and My Back Pages, and Peter Paul & Mary's Blowing In The Wind. For Dylan himself there are several songs I would consider, Subterranean Homesick Blues and The Times They Are A Changin are probably my favorites, while Like A Rolling Stone is deserving for sure. Highway 61, Hurricane, and the Wilburys Tweeter And The Monkey Man would be next on my list. Sadly, the song here Visions Of Johanna is not something I would consider even in a Bob Dylan top 40 songs list. It is long and meandering and not very interesting at all musically.
    RATING: 2.5/5

    Leader Of The Pack (The Shangri-Las)
    This is probably the Shangri-Las best known song and it is also probably the best of the "teen death" songs of the early 60's. It deserves top 500 status, but I need to add that my all time favorite Shangri-Las song is "Give Him A Great Big Kiss". That would make my top 500 for sure! Mary Weiss was such a cool singer and stage presence!
    RATING: 4/5

    My Current top 75 List:
    1. Time Of The Season-The Zombies
    2. Rosalita-Bruce Springsteen
    3. Help-Beatles
    4. Lola-Kinks
    5. California Dreamin-Mama's & Papa's
    6. Loser-Beck
    7. House Of The Rising Sun-The Animals
    8. Free Bird-Lynyrd Skynyrd
    9. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For-U2
    10. White Rabbit-Jefferson Airplane
    11. Criminal-Fiona Apple
    12. Go Your Own Way-Fleetwood Mac
    13. Don't Fear The Reaper-Blue Oyster Cult
    14. You're So Vain - Carly Simon
    15. Buddy Holly-Weezer
    16. Father And Son-Cat Stevens
    17. Surrender-Cheap Trick
    18. Cannonball-Breeders
    19. Gloris-Them
    20. Peggy Sue-Buddy Holly
    21. Ripple-Grateful Dead
    22. Under The Bridge-Red Hot Chili Peppers
    23. Up On A Roof-The Drifters
    24. Under Pressure-Queen & David Bowie
    25. Dreaming-Blondie
    26. Just What I Needed-The Cars
    27. Heartbreak Hotel-Elvis Presley
    28. I'm A Believer-The Monkees
    28. Papa Was A Rollin Stone-The Temptations
    30. Scenes From An Italian Restaurant-Billy Joel
    31. Help Me-Joni Mitchell
    32. Get Lucky-Daft Punk ft. Pharell Williams
    33. After The Gold Rush-Neil Young
    34. She's Gone-Hall & Oates
    35. Heavy Metal Drummer-Wilco
    36. Enter Sandman-Metallica
    37. Hungry Like The Wolf -Duran Duran
    38. Paranoid-Black Sabbath
    39. Alive-Pearl Jam
    40. Summertime Blues-Eddie Cochran
    41. Green Onions-Booker T & the MG's
    42. Everlong-Foo Fighters
    43. 1999-Prince
    44. All I Have To Do Is Dream-Everly Brothers
    45. Portions For Foxes-Rilo Kiley
    46. It's Too Late-Carole King
    47. Allison-Elvis Costello
    48. Leader Of The Pack-The Shangri-Las
    49. Summertime Sadness-Lana Del Rey
    50. I Can't Help Myself-Four Tops
    51. Move On Up-Curtis Mayfield
    52. Oy Como Va-Santana
    53. Baby Love - Supremes
    54. Without You - Nilsson
    55. Rapper's Delight-Sugarhill Gang
    56. Fade Into You-Mazzy Star
    57. Come As You Are-Nirvana
    58. God Save The Queen-Sex Pistols
    59. Da Doo Run Run-The Crystals
    60. Merry Go Round-Kasey Musgraves
    61. Little Red Corvette-Prince
    62. Black Hole Sun-Soundgarden
    63. Bennie And The Jets-Elton John
    64. Limelight-Rush
    65. Passionate Kisses-Lucinda Williams
    66. Our Lips Are Sealed-Go Go's
    67. Crying-Roy Orbison
    68. Midnight Train To Georgia-Gladys Knight & Pips
    69. Sheena Is A Punk Rocker-Ramones
    70. Everybody Wants To Rule The World-Tears For Fears
    71. Promised Land-Chuck Berry
    72. Because The Night-Patti Smith
    73. Pictures Of You-The Cure
    74. All I Ever Wanted-Depeche Mode
    75. Brass In Pocket-Pretenders

    Goodbye to Mr. Brightside by The Killers, one of a few songs of theirs I would consider for the top 500
     
  20. John54

    John54 Senior Member

    Location:
    Burlington, ON
    Leader of the Pack: I've been familiar with this classic since its heyday in 1964. Not much to say except that it's a great song with the best car crash in rock 'n' roll.

    Somehow I don't think the parody a couple of years later, Leader of the Laundromat by the Detergents, will hit the top 500. Dang it!
     
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  21. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    "Leader of the Pack"

    I had to search YouTube carefully to find the correct hit version of the song. That's because, over the years, two edits were made to the song for unknown reasons, and very few reissues have it correct.

    The 45 of "Leader of the Pack" is mono. It was not released in stereo until late 1966, after the Red Bird label was close to folding. The Shangri-Las signed with Mercury, and as part of the deal, their Red Bird material followed them. The group's new label quickly released a compilation, Golden Hits of the Shangri-Las, with "Leader of the Pack" in stereo. But something was missing: For reasons no one has been able to explain, the first line of the second verse, "One day my dad said find someone new," was gone. Every stereo reissue, on vinyl, tape, and CD, from 1966 to 1998, had that error on it. Eric Records re-released "Pack" in stereo on a 45 in the 1970s, and it contains the missing line, but that line is in mono, spliced in from another source.

    Finally, in 1998, Taragon Records released The Very Best of Red Bird/Blue Cat Records on a CD (TARCD-1029). Of the 15 songs on the CD, 14 are in true stereo, remixed from the original four-track tapes. This disc has several revelations on it relating to other Shangri-Las hits (a much longer fade-out on "Remember [Walkin' in the Sand]," a short vocal line on "I Can Never Go Home Any More" that was mixed out of the single, and almost no reverb on anything). And for the first time ever, the full-length version of "Leader of the Pack" was in stereo. I'm sure some subsequent stereo CD reissues have the correct length, but the Taragon was the first.

    A just as mysterious cut was made to the mono version at some point, and unlike the stereo cut, I have no idea when. If you listen to the shouts of "Look out, look out, look out, LOOK OUT!!" during poor Jimmy's crash, the original single has four bars of instrumental before the vocal "I felt so helpless, what could I do?" came in. This is true at least of the East Coast press from Shelley Products and the Midwest press from Columbia Terre Haute (I don't know about the West Coast Monarch edition). But every mono reissue of "Leader of the Pack" except one has only two bars of music before the vocal resumes, thus they don't match the original single. I have read, but cannot confirm, that this two-bar excision was done as early as the Red Bird LP Leader of the Pack, released early in 1965 in mono only.

    The one CD I know of with the full, correct mono mix is The Best of Tragedy (DCC Compact Classics DZS 078, 1995), mastered by Steve Hoffman. It's possible that others do, but except for this confirmed example, assume it's edited on CD if it's in mono.

    The full-length version is about 2:58, 10 seconds longer than the 2:48 listed on the Red Bird 45 record label.

    ---

    Many stories are floating around about the recording of "Leader of the Pack," too. The instrumental bed was recorded at Ultrasonic Recording Studios at Hempstead, N.Y., on Long Island. A young musician who used to hang out there was a piano player named Billy Joel, and because producer Shadow Morton used Ultrasonic, rumors began (and persist) that Joel played piano on "Leader of the Pack" and/or "Remember (Walkin' in the Sand)." In 2010, Joel said he played on a demo of "Pack," but probably not the final recording.

    Tony Visconti, who was from New York and was a regular in the club scene there before relocating to England, later claimed that songwriter, musician, and arranger Artie Butler was the pianist on "Pack." But that is incorrect, too.

    The actual person bangin' on the piano on "Leader of the Pack" was studio musician Roger Rossi, the house pianist at Ultrasonic. He later said that Morton ran the band through 63 takes before he was finally satisfied.

    Stories differ as to where the motorcycle sound originated, too. Did it come from a recording of assistant engineer Joe Venneri's Harley, as is claimed? Or did it come from a sound-effects record, as the Shangri-Las' Mary Weiss has claimed? That one is less clear-cut.

    Also less clear-cut us how the song came to be written. After "Remember" became a hit, Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, who owned Red Bird with George Goldner, wanted an immediate Shangri-Las follow-up, but Morton had nothing. So he supposedly wrote the lyrics while taking a bath, smoking cigars, and drinking champagne while jotting the words in crayon on a piece of cardboard. Jeff Barry and Ellie Greenwich then worked their magic on his scribblings.

    This also doesn't gibe with Rossi's story of multiple takes of the instrumental before the group recorded the vocals, unless Barry and Greenwich already had a melody.

    Ah, the fuzziness of memories!

    ---

    One thing that isn't fuzzy, but is very clear, was how successful "Leader of the Pack" was. It peaked at #1 in Billboard, Cash Box, and Record World and #2 in the more obscure Music Business. On the R&B charts, the song got to #6 in Record World and #8 in Cash Box. (Billboard had no R&B chart in 1964.)

    In Canada, it got to #3, and in the UK, the song peaked at #11 in 1965, #3 in 1972, and #7 in 1976.

    Yet another sign of the song's populariy is that it inspired two famous parodies.

    The first and most successful was "Leader of the Laundromat," written by the team of Paul Vance and Lee Pockriss and recorded by a studio group called The Detergents. The lead singer was Danny Jordan, Vance's nephew; Ron Dante, who later became the voice of Archie of The Archies and the lead of The Cuff Links, and in the 1970s co-produced most of Barry Manilow's hits, was also involved. Again because of the prominent piano ("Who's that bangin' on the piano?" "I don't know") and its New York origin, Billy Joel has been associated with this record, but it's even less likely than with the Shangri-Las. This record was also a big hit, peaking in early 1965 at #10 in Record World, #11 in Cash Box, and #19 in Billboard.

    The other one that has lasted to the present day to some degree is "I Want My Baby Back" by Jimmy Cross, one of the few records on Vee-Jay subsidiary Tollie other than a couple Beatles 45s that made any impact (the word choice is deliberate). A parody of not only "Pack" but of teen tragedy records in general and, to some degree, Beatlemania, Cross's song was called "the world's worst record" by British DJ Kenny Everett in 1977. If you've never heard this classic bad disc, here it is:



    It peaked in February 1965 at #80 in Record World, #81 in Cash Box, #87 in Music Business, and #92 in Billboard.

    Oh yes, one of the co-writers of this record was none other than Perry Botkin, Jr., of "Nadia's Theme" fame (and a lot of other production and soundtrack work), with Gil Garfield. Garfield had been a member of the group The Cheers, whose biggest hit was the 1955 Top 10 hit (written by Leiber and Stoller) "Black Denim Trousers and Motorcycle Boots," a song about a rider who collides with a train and dies.

    This brings us full circle.

    ---

    In 1985, Twisted Sister covered "Leader of the Pack"; it was the first single from the album Come Out and Play, and it peaked at #51 in Cash Box and #53 in Billboard. It proved to be the band's last charted hit.

    The same year, a musical built around the music of Greenwich opened on Broadway; it was named Leader of the Pack after the song. It got fantastically bad reviews, but it lasted for 120 performances and was nominated for a Tony Award. It later became a popular musical for high-school and amateur theater groups.

    ---

    I don't know how many times I listened to "Leader of the Pack" before writing this, mostly in my quest to find the complete original recording. It really stands up, I must say, even though what the late Bob Collins of WGN radio called "teenage gooey death songs" are a thing of the past.

    That said, the Shangri-Las had four Top 20 singles, and I like the other three more than this. To me, the greatest is "I Can Never Go Hone Any More"; I still remember the first time I heard the scream of "MAMA!" on the record, and I got serious goose bumps. (And I still do, even though I know it's coming now.) I also love "Remember (Walkin' in the Sand)," which makes the end of a relationship sound like Armageddon (which for many teens, it kinda is), and I've come to love "Give Him a Great Big Kiss" ("Well, how does he dance?" "Close...very, very close!").

    "Leader of the Pack" is in fourth place behind those. But my goodness, it's well produced, and it's so wonderfully sad, I think my resistance is weakening. I think I'll dig out my copy of The Very Best of Red Bird/Blue Cat Records and add it to a future volume of A Few of My Favorite Things.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
    ARK and Brian Kelly like this.
  22. Jamsterdammer

    Jamsterdammer The Great CD in the Sky

    Location:
    Málaga, Spain
    The Shangri-Las, 'Leader of the Pack'

    Great song! The sound of the crash is sublime. Deserves to be on the list.
     
    Brian Kelly likes this.
  23. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    315. John Coltrane, 'Pt. 1-Acknowledgement'
    1965
    WRITER(S):John Coltrane

    In late 1964, John Coltrane secluded himself in a spare upstairs bedroom in his house in Dix Hills, Long Island, with his saxophone, pen, and paper. His wife Alice later remembered him emerging “like Moses coming down the mountain” with a brand-new album-length suite of devotional music, which he called A Love Supreme. “This album is a humble offering to Him,” he would write in the liner notes of the LP. “An attempt to say, ‘Thank you God’ through our work, even as we do in our hearts and with our tongues.” The opening movement starts off like a musical prayer, before moving into a mantra-esque bass vamp — which later becomes the foundation for a vocal chant of the title phrase — as Coltrane and the other members of his so-called classic quartet, pianist McCoy Tyner and drummer Elvin Jones, join in. Coltrane’s majestic, often violent blowing on the track is never self-aggrandizing. He soars with nothing but gratitude and joy. You can’t help but go with him.
     
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  24. tim_neely

    tim_neely Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Central VA
    "A Love Supreme, Pt. 1 -- Acknowledgment":

     
  25. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly 1964-73 rock's best decade

    Acknowledgement pt 1 (John Coltrane)
    I can't really put this into a top 500 song countdown. It is so much just a part of an album. Even if taken on its own, it goes on a little long-the repeated "A love supreme" grows tiresome and there are just too many other individual songs I enjoy more. Jazz really belongs in its own countdown.
    RATING: 3/5

    My Current top 75 List:
    1. Time Of The Season-The Zombies
    2. Rosalita-Bruce Springsteen
    3. Help-Beatles
    4. Lola-Kinks
    5. California Dreamin-Mama's & Papa's
    6. Loser-Beck
    7. House Of The Rising Sun-The Animals
    8. Free Bird-Lynyrd Skynyrd
    9. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For-U2
    10. White Rabbit-Jefferson Airplane
    11. Criminal-Fiona Apple
    12. Go Your Own Way-Fleetwood Mac
    13. Don't Fear The Reaper-Blue Oyster Cult
    14. You're So Vain - Carly Simon
    15. Buddy Holly-Weezer
    16. Father And Son-Cat Stevens
    17. Surrender-Cheap Trick
    18. Cannonball-Breeders
    19. Gloris-Them
    20. Peggy Sue-Buddy Holly
    21. Ripple-Grateful Dead
    22. Under The Bridge-Red Hot Chili Peppers
    23. Up On A Roof-The Drifters
    24. Under Pressure-Queen & David Bowie
    25. Dreaming-Blondie
    26. Just What I Needed-The Cars
    27. Heartbreak Hotel-Elvis Presley
    28. I'm A Believer-The Monkees
    28. Papa Was A Rollin Stone-The Temptations
    30. Scenes From An Italian Restaurant-Billy Joel
    31. Help Me-Joni Mitchell
    32. Get Lucky-Daft Punk ft. Pharell Williams
    33. After The Gold Rush-Neil Young
    34. She's Gone-Hall & Oates
    35. Heavy Metal Drummer-Wilco
    36. Enter Sandman-Metallica
    37. Hungry Like The Wolf -Duran Duran
    38. Paranoid-Black Sabbath
    39. Alive-Pearl Jam
    40. Summertime Blues-Eddie Cochran
    41. Green Onions-Booker T & the MG's
    42. Everlong-Foo Fighters
    43. 1999-Prince
    44. All I Have To Do Is Dream-Everly Brothers
    45. Portions For Foxes-Rilo Kiley
    46. It's Too Late-Carole King
    47. Allison-Elvis Costello
    48. Leader Of The Pack-The Shangri-Las
    49. Summertime Sadness-Lana Del Rey
    50. I Can't Help Myself-Four Tops
    51. Move On Up-Curtis Mayfield
    52. Oy Como Va-Santana
    53. Baby Love - Supremes
    54. Without You - Nilsson
    55. Rapper's Delight-Sugarhill Gang
    56. Fade Into You-Mazzy Star
    57. Come As You Are-Nirvana
    58. God Save The Queen-Sex Pistols
    59. Da Doo Run Run-The Crystals
    60. Merry Go Round-Kasey Musgraves
    61. Little Red Corvette-Prince
    62. Black Hole Sun-Soundgarden
    63. Bennie And The Jets-Elton John
    64. Limelight-Rush
    65. Passionate Kisses-Lucinda Williams
    66. Our Lips Are Sealed-Go Go's
    67. Crying-Roy Orbison
    68. Midnight Train To Georgia-Gladys Knight & Pips
    69. Sheena Is A Punk Rocker-Ramones
    70. Everybody Wants To Rule The World-Tears For Fears
    71. Promised Land-Chuck Berry
    72. Because The Night-Patti Smith
    73. Pictures Of You-The Cure
    74. All I Ever Wanted-Depeche Mode
    75. Brass In Pocket-Pretenders
     

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