You're making generalizations and not making yourself very clear. How do you know what SACD players we're using?
HEY NOW!!!!!!!!!! I still have my working Sony SL-HF360 Super (thank you!)BetaMax and a ***** load of unreleased Rock and Roll Video in me closet!!! hehehehehe It's ALL Good! The Beave
Eh.... I'm not ready to say that SACD is having an resurgence. Just because there's a few more catalog issues coming out in Japan along with the niche label release of Wish You Were Here doesn't mean the format is making a big comeback. Don't get me wrong I am glad there's an uptick in titles coming out but given how expensive they are I'm passing on them.
A few quick comments. I wouldn't worry about whether SACD players convert to PCM internally since I haven't seen any evidence that the difference is audible. There is scant evidence as far as I can tell for the audible benefits of any high-res over 16/44 but that is by the by. Certainly many SACDs sound great when mastered with care from good sources - and I am all in favour of great-sounding releases I don't like SACD though since it is hard to rip and I play music mostly from a server. I don't believe in any inherent merits of DSD over PCM though there may be some subtle benefits to high-res - jury still out as far as I am concerned. The Japanese SHM-SACDs are too expensive for me and for bad reasons, eg pointless SHM material that is more brittle and delicate than whatever was used before for SACDs. However I hope that these high quality masterings find there way into more affordable releases in some guise or other. I don't think SACD will ever crack the mass market, because the benefits are not apparent to the average music buyer. You could play the CD, then the SACD, and most people will just say, "huh?". I am getting much pleasure from discovering new-to-me artists like Mazzy Star and buying up 4 or 5 CDs at today's bargain prices, for less than a third what it would cost to get one premium price SHM thing that doesn't even play on my normal equipment, ie from a server, of a title I have heard a thousand times already. Tim, in slightly fractious mood!
I think the word "resurgence" will be applicable only when (IF) a NEW chart title is published at the same time on iTunes, CD and SACD format, something that, off the top of my head, I haven't seen happening since Depeche Mode's Playing The Angel about 6 years ago and I don't see ever happening again. A slight increase of old catalogue items published for the audience of ONE country at a very expensive price cannot be defined as "resurgence" in my book.
For me personally (I'm not that interested in those SHM-SACD rock/pop reissues frequently discussed here), the true resurgence of the format is the number of Blue Note and Impulse! titles reissued by Analogue Productions. For years, there were hardly any jazz SACD releases. Having SACD released by audiophile labels such as AP or Mofi also guarantees a high mastering standard, whereas releases by the official labels (or their japanese subsidiaries) are more hit and miss.
Does anyone have any sales numbers to support the resurgence claim? It appears to me, all of the releases are premium priced and none are being carried in retail stores. I just see this as a tiny niche market product now, the same as the last 5 years, no resurgence at all. 370 releases priced at $35 and up is exactly the same as no releases for me and about 99.9% of consumers. I have about 200 SACD titles, mostly purchased at a slight premium compared to CD and would never pay $35 to $60 for a single disc album on SACD or any other format. For the tiny market that is willing to pay the premium price, I am sure any releases are good news but to call it a resurgence seems rather silly. For everybody else, whether there are 200 or 800 releases of this nature each year means nothing. Despite the decline in music sales each year, I don't think SACD amounts to 1% of total sales and the percentage might actually round to zero.
I hear you. Most people I mention SACD to are like "What the hell are you talking about?" Outside the audiophile community (which is a small percentage in itself) it means nothing to no one. I love the format, so please don't get me wrong, but the format is currently way overpriced and under-promoted. If SACD were to truly make a resurgence it would be highly promoted in every new player (Blu-ray or whatever) and the major labels would have to really rally behind it. On top of that you'll have to convince "Joe Public" that SACD is the way to go, and the only way I see that happening is if you offer more SACDs in 5.1 surround. Your average "keeping up with the Jonses" guy will be more easily persuaded if you can convince him that his 5.1 home theater investment will yield even more returns if you can offer a fat catalog of titles offered in surround sound. Stereo only SACD only matters to audiophiles. To get the general public to buy-in (who will drive this market in the long run) you'll need to convince them that a niche format like SACD is a worthwhile investment.
Is the Sony SCD-XE800 a "true" (no PCM conversion) SACD-DSD player? Many thanks in advance http://www.amazon.co.uk/SONY-CD-pla...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311155523&sr=1-1
I can't give an answer to that, but the quality of a SACD player does not depend on that factor alone. I bet that's it's possible to build a $1000 SACD player with internal DSD-PCM conversion that sounds better than a $400 "pure-DSD" player.
Thanks for your reply. You have a point for sure, I was intrigued by the "no more pure SACD-DSD player currently for sale" discussion. For those interested in having an entry level SACD player, just to see what the fuss is about, the SCD-XE800 or one of the new Sony Blu-ray players (but they probably won't make pure DSD) could be an affordable choice without spending too much.
I am surprised. It's great to see that MFSL has moved to SACD exclusively (from CD; they still do vinyl). The only issue I have is that all SACDs today are premium-priced. The MFSL and Analogue Productions discs are a relative bargain at $25-30.
My Yamaha amp tells me that, when playing SACDs, my humble Sony BDP-S570 is sending it a Mch or Stereo DSD signal through the HDMI connection.
The XE800 looks like the XA5400's little brother (sister?), so I'm guessing it does not convert DSD to PCM. The DAC in the '5400ES accepts DSD or PCM but can not convert between them. The same is true of the earlier XA9000ES and XA777ES...and on back to the first generation Sony's.
Not so in classical. Many titles available for $10-$15 from places like Berkshire Record Outlet, etc.
There are also plenty of reasonably priced SACDs if you are willing to wait a bit. I've just ordered Sam Cooke Portrait of a Legend SACD from Amazon uk for £7.95. Tim
Many of us already have surround systems, especially if we're into Home Theater, so a surround layer is a nice bonus. I understand the extra cost involved but many times it makes a difference whether I buy a title or not. I agree about the MFSL and AP discs being a bargain at $25-30. But, boy, I've really got a hard time paying $60 for a single SACD title. A title that doesn't have a surround mix on it to boot. I do like the attention that SACD seems to be getting lately and I agree that there is a resurgence, albeit on a niche scale. Still, that's worth something. But I doubt I'll be springing for any of the $60 titles - too rich for me. I'll hunt out the bargains.
SACD will always be a niche market. Of all my friends at this point only one other can play SACD. He has 4 SACD's I think. I have over 300 at this point. Most I have bought over 3 years ago at this point. Haven't bought a lot recently. So for me SACD is kind of a "non-active" format at this point. I am not paying anymore than $30 for a SACD. And at that it would have to be a very special title. Most of the ones I have now are selling for very high amounts on EBay. Glad I bought most of them years ago when the prices were still reasonable. Oh, and they have to be multi-channel as well. No stereo SACD's.
Excluding Forum members I know two people with SACD playback capability. One is highly aware of the format but his player (PS3) is used exclusively for Blu-ray. He has 3 or 4 SACDs that he plays on his stereo rig (ie. listens to the redbook layer on a Marantz). He also has an early Oppo that I'm pretty sure does DVD Audio but he does not have any discs (nor does he care). Another friend has a Yamaha changer. When I pointed out the SACD logo on the front he was utterly clueless, had no idea what it meant. I strongly suspect he does not own a single SACD (though it's possible he has a couple of Stones titles without realizing it). My father-in-law also has a few SACDs and he's familiar with the whole thing but I don't count him because he doesn't have an SACD player; he plays them on his Rotel RBCD player.
Ah yes, PCM decimation. You can avoid it by using a SACD player with HDMI interface (Oppo) to a amplifier which does DSD Direct! Clean up your room accoustics and don't use eq like Audyssey because it only works inside PCM. There is a list of amps that do DSD Direct somewhere out there. I'll try to post a link later.
I don't agree that there is a "resurgence" at all of SACD...just because a few more titles are produced does not make it a resurgence. How many total SACDs are sold now, compared to the earlier years? I'm quite sure total sales now are hugely less. I bought SACDs in the beginning, up to about 5 years ago... I still have over 700 SACDs so I had a lot of hope for the format. I now almost exclusively purchase vinyl, as I find it to offer more, and haven't found more than a couple SACDs that interested me enough to pay for them in the past few years...too bad.
