Schiit Loki Equalizer released

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Puma Cat, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    I agree. One of the reasons the tests could, and likely are, wrong is that I've never seen any audio tests run that was foundationally backed up by a proper and statistically valid measurements systems analysis, aka MSA. If you don't qualify and characterize a measurement system with respect to accuracy, precision, repeatibility, reproducibility, smallest effective measurement increment, "part (the thing being measured aka the "measurand") to operator" interaction and "part to part" precision, any measurements reported, are by default, questionable.
     
  2. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    So, how can the amp know, whether a long tone is just a measurement (and then, mess it up with loads of distortion), or whether a long tone is actual music?

    Schiit has some very strange designs. But it is made in USA, so it must be good, obviously.
     
    Robert C likes this.
  3. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Doesn't seem right. I will give the benefit of the doubt, based on how well their equipment is generally otherwise rated.
     
    Tim Müller likes this.
  4. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Ya, some strange Schiit goin' on... :laugh:
     
    Tim Müller likes this.
  5. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    I've listened to the Ragnarok amp with headphones. It sounds wonderful with music signals. Knowing how its control algorithms work I would avoid playing test measurement signals through it because those test signals could get it into a state of high distortion that will take it some time to recover from. But with regular music signals that is not a factor to consider. It's not something that will happen if you listen to music (even industrial or noise music). I'm not aware of anyone who has a Ragnarok who has experienced the high distortion that happened during those Stereophile test measurements. It's not something that happens with music and semi-music signals. I'd be willing to buy the amp and 100% confident that it would perform perfectly for many years. Of the Schiit amps I've heard, the Ragnarok is actually my favorite. To me it sounds really good for a solid state headphone amp. But I haven't heard all of the Schiit amps yet.
     
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  6. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I want to tailor some thin sounding records with this new EQ, doing needle-drops to my cd-r (analog inputs and monitor).
     
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  7. chodad

    chodad Hodad

    Location:
    USA
    I love equalizers. Ordered one.
     
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  8. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    4 bands graphic EQ? At best, you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

    Yet I'm sure a bunch of people will buy one and use it to make perfectly fine sounding systems and recordings sound worse.
     
    Tim Müller likes this.
  9. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    OK, so one must not play music that has long sustained single notes...?
    Because, the amp might mistake such music for a test signal, so it would get it into a state of high distortion that will take it some time to recover from.
     
    Robert C likes this.
  10. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Why don't you just tailor the thin sounding records' needledrops on the computer?
     
    Robert C likes this.
  11. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'm sure a bunch of people will buy one and use it to make perfectly schiity recordings sound a bit better.
     
    Merrick, Shawn, dmckean and 5 others like this.
  12. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Music with long sustained notes will not cause the control algorithm to go wonky. Unless your music literally is a test signal you are not going to experience those problems with music.
     
  13. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Well,

    Schiit gear is notorious for their akward strange designs, that introduce all kinds of strange behaviour.
    The outcome never seems to be predictable, from specs and advertising.

    I am not sure, using a Schiit EQ, to get the sound I want. Because of the unpredictable behaviour of their gear.

    But that's the fun part of it: Get a Schiit, and try to find out what strange things are going on!

    I bet, a number of people like that!
     
  14. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    How does the Schiit amp know, it's music with long sustained notes, and not test signal?
     
    Robert C likes this.
  15. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    You'd have to ask Jason at Schiit about that.
    None of the people who own the amp worry about it. But it seems a number of people who have no intention of every owning or trying the amp do worry a lot about it.
     
  16. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    Yep, that's the usual way of bringing forward arguments:
    First stage, repeat fanboy statements. Repeat copy-writers' buzz-words
    2nd stage, if being questioned, tell somebody else to ask, as if these were not your own statements.


    Think about it! How does the Schiit amp know, it's music with long sustained notes, and not test signal?
    For instance, if the music is electronic synthesizer music. Kraftwerk? New Wave? Stockhausen?

    Think about it! Why on earth should an amp introduce more and more distortion into sound, when it plays long sustained signals, notes or sounds? We have amps that can play any sounds, signals or notes for hours and hours at constant very low distortions.
     
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  17. juno6000

    juno6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    I was also thinking of Kraftwerk, Gary Numan/Tubeway Army, and some OMD as well.
     
    Tim Müller likes this.
  18. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    what are you talking about? the Ragnarok? if so, everything have been well resolved from Schiit and Stereophile reevaluated the product after

    the ragnarok measurements quirks have all been well explained in another forum. same for the false stereophile yggy measurements.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  19. murphythecat

    murphythecat https://www.last.fm/user/murphythecat

    Location:
    Canada
    we can see just how wide the range are affected. ie: 20hz seem to affect up to 200hz and +3db at 20hz seem to be like +2.5 db at 100hz.

    Schiit Audio Loki Mini Four-Band Equalizer - Head-Fi TV

    if its very transparent, i think this is very useful for headphone but also speakers! very interested by this!
     
  20. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Since I do my needle-drops in "real time" to my cd recorder, with the EQ in my system I will adjust eq settings "on the fly" and
    monitor them through my speakers. I will be able to record just the right sound for what I am playing through my main system,
    rather than with some computer software, not knowing how that would actually sound on my stereo. Makes more sense to me.
     
    Tim Müller likes this.
  21. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    Strange in what way? All of their products seem to be very well thought-through and represent a very pragmatic approach to audio product development.
     
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  22. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    East Bay, CA
    It should be exceedingly transparent; this from the Schiit Loki FAQ:

    " There’s a switch on the front to completely bypass the tone control stage—as in, a relay connects the input and output directly, no active devices in the signal path at all."

    The only thing I could see that may impact transparency would be the impact of a short interconnect between the preamp, Loki and the amp (or source and preamp depending on where it is positioned in the reproduction chain). But given that its just a straight wire with zero gain, it should quite transparent, if not completely transparent. I would not expect the impact to be any greater than connecting an IC from a preamp to an amp.
     
    chodad likes this.
  23. Tim Müller

    Tim Müller Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    My main system is connected to my computer. The computer plays through my main system, so I hear exactly what it sounds like on my main system when I set EQ settings on my computer. Makes more sense to me.
    However, if you use a "CD-Recorder", than it probably makes more sense to also use hardware.

    If an equalizer is 100% transparent, means it just don't work and does nothing to the sound. Why would one want to have such?
    Par definition, an equalizer is a device that alters tonality of a recording, so cannot be transparent by any means.
    If the best feature of an equalizer is the by-pass switch - why on earth you want to have such a device at all?
     
    Robert C likes this.
  24. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    It seems like you don’t understand anything about how this things works, and by you not listing any of your gear in your profile no one can make any determination what your frame of reference might be, or take you seriously. You mostly just come off as a complainer.
     
  25. timztunz

    timztunz Audioista

    Location:
    Texas
    I ordered one too to try on my headphone rig. Sources: Rega Saturn-R (CD) and Mac Mini using Audirvana (AIFF), both fed to a Bricasti M1 DAC to a Tron Antares headphone amp to Focal Utopia/Sennheiser H800S headphones. I think connecting this between the Bricasti and Tron is correct, right?
     

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