Schiit Mani or Lounge Audio LCR or continue with my receivers phono?

Keep them both! Buy that 2nd turntable so you can play either mono or stereo LP's without having to switch cartridges!

 

True why even sell the mani since it's dirt cheap. Im listening to John Coltrane Blue Note 1577 album switching back and forth and both sound sweet.

 

I was listening to Coltrane A Love Supreme earlier, followed by BIll Evans Trio 64 (Verve 1964) earlier.... now we're at the heart of the matter....

Cheers.

 

Does anyone know what the crackly hissing sound is that comes out of the speaker on soft passages? Certain albums when the artist voice is mainly what you hear when there is little to no music in the background.
The ground wire is connected and I get the same effect with the Lounge and Schiit.

 

@TheVinylAddict I bought the Elenco CM1555 meter. It has not arrived but to be prepared what is the setting I would use to measure a cable's capacitance? The 2000pf or 200pf?

 

@Audio73 - I have been using the 2000pf for cables.

 

You are fine with the Lounge. One also has to take the capacitance of the phono cables into account.

I'd not recommend the Mani. It can be susceptible to RF interference in some setups.

 

How's that IFI iPhono2 you were so high on treating you??

 

Sounds as great enjoyment!
I do not know anything about the Lounge.
But you can optimize the Mani by looking in the manual (as seen below) you get better performance from it, the less gain you can use (better THD, SNR).. that on the other hand you have to turn up the volume of the preamp that gives less negative impact of the lower resistance also from the volume potentiometer. A win win.

In other words my preamp volume control is at 1 to 3 o'clock. And there is no benefit for me to have more gain in the RIAA. With poorer THD, SNR and then need to lower volume knob at 9 to 10 o'clock that also give a more unnecessary resistance.
(Remember that a volume control of a amp is not as a accelerometer on a car that the more you are pressing it the more power it gives to you. It is more like a break pedal. The amp is giving full power all the time and the volume knob is like having full power at all time to your wheels, and when the more you release the brake the faster you will go)

I know that all setups is not able to do this and you will also get different knob settings between different sources when you switch between them on your preamp (so maybe turn down the volume when going from TT to CD for example. And you do not need to go all the way you can decide to just reduce the gain down to the next lower one. From what you are using right now.

Happy optimize:ation to utilize the Mani to the fullest. (Of course this is possible with other RIAA stages to do if they support different gains. Check your owner manual if there is any sound quality to get. And another benefit with not having a super low out put cartridge)

Below information taken from the Mani manual. The higher SNR and lower the THD is the better sound quality:
Gain 1 = L, Gain 2 = L (Decca Mode)
Gain: 30dB
THD: <0.005%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >90dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted

Gain 1 = L, Gain 2 = H (Standard MM Mode)
Gain: 42dB
THD: <0.008%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >82dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted

Gain 1 = H, Gain 2 = L (Low Output MM/High Output MC Mode)
Gain: 48dB
THD: <0.01%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >80dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted

Gain 1 = H, Gain 2 = H (MC Mode)
Gain: 59dB
THD: <0.03%, A-weighted, at 1V RMS
SNR: >70dB, A-weighted, inputs shorted

 

The Mani at 30dB sounds great. With a high output MM cart like the Ortofon 2M series, 42dB is too much, I think.

(And if you have RFI/EMI issues, make sure you are running cables that are shielded end to end between turntable and Mani.)

 

The Lounge has a 74 S/N much lower then the Mani S/N 82 and 90. The Mani at 42db gain its 82 S/N compared to the Lounge 40db gain having 74 S/N.
I can't hear difference even with the Mani at 30db gain. (I tried 30 but its dead sounding to me even when turned up)

 

Does it read the total capacitance for the length of the cable or per Ft?

 

The reading will be across the entire cable - then you divided by the length of the cable.

FOr example, earlier in the thread I showed the measurement of that Ugreen cable that is much like the Fospower you own --- note the 359 reading is divided by 6 to get the 59pf / ft I quoted.

Note --- there will be some that will tell that measuring capacitance of a cable with these types of meters is not a valid measurement --- but realize that the readings I get from cables like the Blue Jeans LC-1, 1505F, 1505a and more is IDENTICAL to the specs published by Blue Jeans and Belden, the maker of the cable! So if these meters aren't a good indicator, it's mighty peculiar they give the same numbers as well established cable makers publish.

 

The lowest Db setting on the Mani is going to be too low for most mainstream MM cartridges ---- it may be OK for something like the Shure M44G at 9.0 mV though....

 

The problem with the Mani's specs is that they are likely pure bunk or were measured off a "perfect" non-production unit under less than real world conditions with questionable technique. That thing was NOISIER in my system than other phono pres with lower manufacturer spec'd S/N ratio. That's BEFORE my move to an RFI heavy area that lead me to sell off the unit. THREE other units from THREE different manufacturers at THREE different price points were quieter despite being spec'd lower.

It wouldn't be the first time the company's measurements were questionable either. I think they have a QC problem. Two units in a row of one popular product (not the Mani) that failed to be grounded properly - this is really basic stuff that made me lose respect for the company. I don't think I would ever buy anything from them again.

 

Could it be one of those synergy things with your system?

I've read your Mani experiences many times.... and I still have two Mani's and mine was nothing like yours... but maybe QC I dunno.

I am not saying by any stretch that the Mani is dead quiet.... but it is quieter than the Cambridge 651p I owned, and not any noisier than the Hagerman Bugle2 and Radial J33 and a a couple more.

 

Definitely not a synergy thing. I ran it with several different carts for a few years and got rid of it. Stayed with me through a few moves to different states too. It was only after the last move that RFI was an issue, but it was hissy from day one.

The other thing with S/N ratio is that some manufacturers use A-weighting and others use broadcast standards that don't have A-weighting. The weighted measurement will always be higher than the non-weighted one. So you've got to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Besides that, it's important to know what test equipment was used. If it's an audio analyzer that costs tens of thousands of dollars used by pros in the industry then assuming it was done right, the measurements are probably pretty good. If it's something else, who knows. I also think a lot of these companies, particularly smaller manufacturers, do a piss poor job of designing and testing for RFI.

 

And the Mani enigma continues --- it is so all over the spectrum of user experience it remains one of those things --- on one end of the spectrum we have reviewers like the guy in Singapore who thinks it crushes everything up to $1000 pretty much, including the Lounge. (we all know who I am talking about, he gets bashed around here).

Then there's the other side of the spectrum where some say "has no midrange" or things like your experience.

Then we have those in the middle like me that say it's not perfect but for $129 there is nothing close in quality at that price point (key qualifier and why its bolded), and may be all most with mid-fi systems really ever need. Or folks like the OP @Audio73 who is having trouble hearing much difference compared to the Lounge in his particular setup (again, bolded for good reason)

I think the Mani stands tall in it's price class, and I've tried many phono preamps under $500. My experience has led me to think it is just as good as anything up to the Lounge MKiii price point --- so much so I kept the Mani over things like the Cambridge 651p, Hagerman Bugle 2, and a few others. YMMV and I am sure, since it's the Mani, others will have something to say.

The Mani continues to be one of those interesting pieces of gear, definitely disruptive at $129 --- I often wonder how many people like to take shots at Schiit due to their "interesting" and somewhat arrogant customer support at times....

 

@TheVinylAddict, my criticisms are performance related. I still run one of their DACs but will be getting rid of it later this year. Yeah, I don't like their attitude around customer service but it wouldn't matter if the products did what they are supposed to do. I think they can be given a fair critique on performance and measurement standards, which most Schiit products don't do so hot on when really put to the test. No getting around that despite what some of the rabid fan boys and hypesters have to say. I don't think you're one of those people - you just lucked out and their products work for you. I'm well over them and won't buy anything else as I said. Far too many other choices out there today.

As for HiVi, I've voiced my technical criticisms on his reviewing style before. He tends to evangelize certain products beyond what they can really deliver IMHO and never puts anything through real torture tests. What bothers me is that a lot of people new to this hobby tend to take his word as gospel, when they need to read between the lines. Just because he buys his own gear and doesn't take review units from manufacturers doesn't mean he's 100% right all the time, especially when his reviews do not involve actual measurements or torture tests and are 99% subjective.

 

@patient_ot - you know I have many TT's and have and have tried many phono preamps --- I like to compare phono preamps on a cost-relative basis, and also base my assessments on performance. We just have very different findings in this instance in that price class, which is fine, if we all had similar experience this would be a boring hobby! (plus we wouldn't have all those emotional threads on the board! Not this one of course.... )

You and I typically agree on many topics / assessments, this is one where as always respect your opinion, but my experience has been slightly different. I will say that my dealings with Schiit customer support, they are darned lucky I have anything nice to say but I look past that.

Remember, I am talking about the performance of this $129 phono preamp compared to others in its price class -- and think its as good as anything up to the $300 Mkii, which is where the next plateau starts. Now, one exception, and one I have never owned is the $249 Mofi Studiophono --- which I know you owned and ended up selling....

But that's just my experience.... cheers.

Oh, as far as HiFi news --- we think a lot the same there --- I like his enthusiasm, but it's clear he is constantly getting stuck on recommending the budget choices and how they crush things much higher priced.... I think that is part of his strategy to get YouTube subscribers --- he knows that most buying TT's and preamps are going to be the lower budget folks, who like to think they got the best deal and didn't have to pay an arm and leg. Think about that aspect..... he is constantly on that same vane for all his reviews.

 

The StudioPhono trounced the Mani. Not only was it a lot quieter despite having lower S/N, it had a fuller sound to it which I liked. I actually measured FR of some of my cartridges through that stage and if it was adding any sonic coloration at all (e.g. mid bump, bottom bump, top bump) it wasn't much. Obviously my measurement equipment is very limited so take it with a grain of salt or do your own measurements. I'm also not holding myself out a professional/semi-professional reviewer or fishing for YT views here, so keep that in mind.

I even liked the Rega FMA2D better than the Mani over the long-term. Not because it's the most amazing phono pre ever - far from it - but it was quieter, which was of big importance to me. It's also spec'd lower than the Mani's bunk specs. I'm not the only one that picked up on the hissiness of the Mani either - search around.

To me the hissiness and the RFI was a dealbreaker at any price. It wouldn't have mattered if the Mani cost $50 or $500, I still would've sold it and moved on.

A few years ago he used to review much more expensive gear. I'm guessing these were mainly audition units from his local dealers because he was shopping for his system. The problem with this is if you aren't actively shopping dealers rightly won't loan you gear just so you can up YT reviews. The other thing is that high-end gear doesn't roll in views like the lower-end $100ish carts and $200ish phono preamps do. So we are largely in agreement on this point.

 

I sure hope the Fospower does not have 59per ft. That would pass my cartridge range of 300 max not including the tonearm cabling and the Lounge 120pf.
I emailed Fospower 2 weeks ago and they still don't know the capacitance. Same with Music Hall they have no idea what their cables measure. That's why I decided to get a meter.

 

LOL. A cable maker that doesn't know how to use a capacitance meter. Red flag runnin' up the pole for me there... YMMV.

Then again, you probably got a CS rep that really doesn't know.....

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at any number you get with the Fospower. I found out one thing about capacitance of cables after measuring for myself -- most of the time it was a surprise. I've been "collecting" cables for many years, I still have many of the Monster cables from back in the day... plus I have Blue Jeans LC-1, Belden 1505F, Belden 1505A and more..... again, capacitance is just ONE of many factors affecting cable performance AND for short distances it really does not matter that much BUT when dealing with TT's and trying to minimize that path from stylus tip to the output port or end of the captive cable --- well, for TT's, regardless of which side of the phono preamp I am on, I try my best to minimize capacitance!

On that vane, on the topic of there are a lot of things that effect performance --- the BJ LC-1 is a 12pf / ft cable --- but I opt for the 16 pf / ft Belden 1505F. After comparing many cables over the years, this cable just has a magical quality for analog....

 

When measuring do I place the meter cable one on each end?

 

on the website, Lounge has a list of compatible cartridges. Ortofon is listed as one of them. FWIW