Thanks a lot for your inputs, @songforyou @avanti1960 @Helom I have gathered all the parts, besides xo, and will use the rest of the year thinking and drawing. Maybe I'll post something when the project is up and running.
Does anyone have any input/advice regarding the capacitor options available for the kit on Madisound?
I opted for the standard Mundorf Supreme capacitor after discussing it with the Madisound rep. The speakers have plenty of resolution and it’s hard to imagine needing anything better. I should reiterate that if you want to experiment with different internals, forego using the supplied driver gasket material until you are settled on a final configuration. Even then, it’s probably not necessary to use at all. That gasket material acts like glue and makes the woofer an absolute 8!+# to remove.
Thank you very much for the reply. They were recommending that capacitor set as well. They said that they had a demo unit with those caps and that it sounded amazing. I really don't want to experiment. I'd like to chose something and forget about it.
In my «extended» A26 I used Jantzen Superior Z-Cap and 12-ohm resistors. I find the sound neutral and balanced. Haven't tried Mundorf yet, but I read somewhere that Mundorf is a bit warmer... I don't know. These babies come straight from my shed and still smell of Osmo oil Great bass! Fast, accurate, and more physical than Harbeth SHL5+. I glued felt on the walls and stuffed in a whole lot of Rockwool. Harbeth is still the king of the human voice. SEAS is close but a little different. Clearer with less warmth. Well, after only 10 hours of playback, things may change.
Question: Hi Helom Hope you don't mind of me contacting you this way since i couldn't find private messages. If you have time to answer, i would appreciate it! Anyway you said before about A 26 kits that the SEAS T35C002 tweeter is as good or better than Dynaudio esotar. Have you compared this seas tweeter to what dynaudio speaker? Reason im asking is, that im building my own 2way speaker, and im trying to go and buy as smooth tweeter as i can, since im very sensitive to sibilance and tweeter quality.. So seas t35 is on my radar. I know dynaudio speakers, and esotar 2 is almost as smooth as i want (almost..), so interested to hear any musing on subject, thanks! Best Jarkko Finland
awesome job, sorry i missed this first time around. as previously mentioned the woofer can put out lower extended bass with a larger cabinet. nicely done physically and sonically.
Hi Jarkko, The Dynaudio speaker with which I’m most familiar is the Countour 20. That’s the one I owned for a short time. It was an “open box” buy so I imagine the tweeters had at least a few hours on them previously. They were very detailed but not so smooth. There was definitely a slight “grain” to them. IMO, even the tweeter in the Heco Celan series is better than the Esotar2, let alone the Seas T35. Linked below are some measurements of the T35 and other large diaphragm soft domes. Note the spectral decay of the T35 is essentially perfect, zero stored energy whatsoever above 1kHz: Large domes Another tweeter I like that is far more economical but doesn’t handle as much power and cannot be crossed over nearly as low is this Scanspeak: ScanSpeak Classic D2010/8513 20 mm Dome Tweeter Aside from its limitations it’s one the best I’ve heard. All that said, my personal preference is for beryllium domes if the budget allows. If implemented well, beryllium is less fatiguing than most soft domes IME. For beryllium-like sound on a budget, this tweeter is phenomenal and can be crossed over fairly low: SB Acoustics SB26ADC-C000-4 Aluminum Dome Tweeter
Thank you Helom, that is thoughtful post and is very helpful. I actually listened contour 20i that is basically identical to the older 20. That was almost as smooth as i wanted, but still had grain as you said so i think t35c will be right tweeter to try out.. I will buy that, thanks! (also, that scanspeak D2010 looks interesting.. i might buy for my second system to try it with discovery drivers as they can be crossed high. How high should crossover be for smooth implementation?)
Just purchased the MadisonSound A26 Kits. Dont have the cabinet making abilities here. I bought the Cherry cabinets and should be here this Monday All the internals will be here Sat. Been in audio for 50+ years, tons of stuff but always wanted to get the A25's....but this A26 looks really decent considering. Some questions I do have are the amount of loose fill material, The kit comes with this and I think its placed in the cabinet loosely. Wondering if its evenly distributed from top to bottom of the cabinet rear or just behind the woofer? Is this fastened or just thrown in there? Never built a speaker so excuse my ignorance...built tons of electronics! They include foam for mounting on the interior walls with a spray adhesive.. The cabinets are not braced. I inquired and they replied the Seas designs does not have bracing... Any comments on how this internal filler gets installed would be greatly appreciated. Also the slot opening gets a acoustic strip that gets placed in it...again wondering how to fasten etc? I hope to post pictures as I put these together! Thanks Alex
Hello. I had a lot of the same questions that you had. Madisound is very helpful. With regard to the loose fill material, I teased it out and put it in the cabinet. It will definitely settle, but after overthinking everything my entire life, I decided to just let this go. The kit does not include enough foam for the rear of the cabinet! I ended up getting some felt from Madisound and cut it to fit the back. I had the same concerns about the bracing and decided to not overthink this either. It is listed in the notes as an option. If the originals didn't have it and were so popular, I figured that the cabinets would be fine without extra bracing. The cabinets that come with the kit are very nice and very sturdy. They are built very well to a high standard. With regard to the slot, I just cut the foam slightly larger than the opening and wedged it in there, it hasn't moved. All of the photos online just have it wedged in there. I ended up installing mine with Miflex capacitors.
Thanks for the reply! All the internals should arrive today. Like most I tend to re-invent the wheel and am really a anal rententive guy!! Got better as we aged!! I am 74, just and still have decent hearing. Was into audio "bigtime" years back..just got back recently...Tons of amps and headphones... I think I will just stick with the cabinets as they are and see how it goes...if you add bracing some folks state this takes up volume and the cabinet needs or should be larger to take this into account... I bought a small kitchen scale to weigh the amount of filler stated in the Seas documents. 50 grams according to Madison for the internal fill. Josh at Madison stated just to fluff up and cover the rear panel and pin with some metal screening? I bought the mundorf silver oil caps...$158 upgrade!! offfff!
I mentioned this upthread but it’s worth reiterating that you should avoid using the supplied driver gasket material until your trials with internal configuration are completed. That gasket material acts like a glue once the woofer is screwed down. In hindsight, I would just avoid using that gasket material all together, most speakers don’t really need it anyhow. The supplied cabinets do benefit from some damping beyond that of the foam and poly fill. If the damping material is not adhered to the walls then it won’t really help to damp audible cabinet vibrations. If I were doing this project over, I would adhere this material to each wall, especially the sides and top/bottom: Bitumen acoustic damping matt | KJF Audio That is essentially the same material that Spendor uses in their speakers and it’s very effective. Once you have it configured as you want, use a staple gun to further couple it to the cabinet walls. The most important damping is the amount of fill/foam behind the woofer. This will largerly dictate the clarity of the midrange. One option is to put a wad of polyfill into a net and then secure that net with glue or staples to the top of the back cabinet wall. That way it won’t settle so much and will remain in line with the woofer’s backwave. Alternatively, the supplied foam sheet can be doubled up and wedged against the back wall, but make sure some of the foam or polyfill is also placed either at the roof or bottom of the cabinet because sound waves tend to bounce between them.
When you say to hang in a net from the top of the back cabinet wall, is this correct or should it be behind the woofer itself? Also this Bitumen damping matt, use this instead of the foam Madison send with the kit? I think your saying to use this Bitumen matt first then the foam over it? Thanks for the tips! Much appreciated! Alex
I meant that the net would hang down from the top of the cabinet so that the bulk of the polyfill ends up in front of the rear baffle and behind the line of sight with the woofer. Regarding the Bitumen, I would add it to the walls but then experiment with the amount of foam in front of it. You might find that you only need foam against the back baffle and top of the cabinet and can get away with omitting foam from the side walls. That might result in better dynamics as opposed to putting foam on all five sides.
Further, being a little “retentive” with this project does pay dividends. I completely understand those not wanting to obsess over the construction of this kit, however, doing so is what unlocks the potential for this kit to compete with $5K Harbeths and Spendors. Throwing it together as suggested by Madisound does not result in as good a midrange performance IME.
Again thanks for the response! The amount of polyfill is stated at 50 grams evenly distributed. So the bulk of it is behind the woofer and to get it to not settle overtime then the netting u suggest would help keep in place behind the woofer. The journey continues..
In the list of parts from Madisonsound it states to cut out 4 pieces 8.25 x 18 " and 4 pieces 8.25 x 9.5" out of the foam they use. Thats 8 pieces...sides, top and bottoms...looks like nothing for the rear panel?. Wondering how to mount the caps internally...some hot glue to their rear foam, some mount just soldered to the cup structure. Wondering why they dont put foam on the back panel?
Speakers are up and running! Most of the 50 grams or .11 lbs of polyfill are behind the woofer cone. With the wiring it was easily suspended.... Having not done this before the mystery of putting this together is now over.. Foam attached with spray adhesive (loctite), 1/4 " wool felt on the back panel. Foam over the bottom vent instead of the 12 grams of polyfill and screens. Drilled pilot holes before mounting the drivers. Good Idea (thanks!). Not an expert by no means, just a old tired 74 yr old EE. I used the 10 ohm resistor and the $$$ Mundorf EVO Silver/Gold/Oil caps. Mids are IMO truly amazing. Bass for a 10 " "mid-woofer" is decent. No bass monsters for sure. My room is a small one over the garage, bonus room, with some odd angles.. Imaging is really spectacular. First impressions over my Salk SongTowers (MTM's) is these so clear, clean, crisp. Tonality of pianos, stringed instruments, guitars etc are very very well reproduced. I am stunned at the clarity of female voice...Katie Melua, Allison Krouse etc stunning here. Things just float out in the air, realistic placement. These things are not cheap, but these days not a lot in this hobby is! Thanks for all the advice! Alex Will listen for a few weeks and see if the desire to play with the different x-over and internal fill comes about.
Moved the speakers back about 4 inches so about 18" from the rear wall, slightly tow'd in. Bass is improved..making the bass violin really sound very nice...u can hear the harmonics and the tonality is life -like...think I have found the sweet here for me...no muddy bass or cross over distortion I can detect. I took out my rat shack SPL meter and set listening to 80-85 db in my sweet spot. My 35 watt Van Alstine Ultravalve tube amp easily attains these levels and much higher..but for my smaller room not necessary at all.
