See-thru pinholes on CD

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rock76, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Right, but are you looking though the thin see through layer on the label side at the holes in the data layer (missing spots of aluminium) - or is the thin label layer itself defective at those spots?

    [hope that makes sense :nyah:]
     
  2. rock76

    rock76 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northwest MEX
    The label side has those same two holes on the same spots but black/brown looking (not transparent)
     
  3. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    So the label side is discoloured precisely where the defects in the data layer are?

    If so then that's not good...
     
  4. rock76

    rock76 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northwest MEX
    In fact, I've already asked for a replacement copy. I'm waiting for a response.
     
  5. Obtuse1

    Obtuse1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    The problem seems to show up on Warner/Sire discs from '87-'88.

    My copies (purchased new) of Depeche Mode's "Music For The Masses" and The Smiths "Louder Than Bombs". both have the issue, with the Smiths disc getting quite "swiss cheese-y".

    Thankfully these were easily replaced.
     
  6. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Many older CD pressings, have numerous pinholes. Those old razor-thin West German Polydor CD's often have them. One of the reasons I used to favor Japan manufactured CD's was because I didn't like the pinholes. As far as I can tell, they don't affect the sound, tho.
     
  7. Col Kepper

    Col Kepper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Texas, Where else?
    I've been investing in Tiayo Yuden DVD media to back up all my recorded CD media.
     
  8. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Good move :agree:
     
  9. rstamberg

    rstamberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Riverside, CT
    You are correct about this ... On both counts. Pinholes do not mean a CD won't play well.
     
  10. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    However, if there are lots of pinholes it can cause problems - I have a DECCA Rachmaninov CD pressed in West Germany which is absolutley riddled with pinholes (worst I've ever seen by a long way).

    Remarkably, I managed to rip it without errors eventually but it wasn't easy. I imagine CD playback would invoke the error masking processes (interpolation and muting) - but I've never compared the CD playback with the ripped version...life's too short...
     
  11. The Dutch Guy

    The Dutch Guy Active Member

    Location:
    Netherlands
    This:

    In the early days of CD, it proved difficult to evenly distribute the alluminium reflective layer. Pinholes don't even have to be real "holes" they can be just spots where th reflective layer is just a bit thinner. But even if they are holes, they are far to small to cause any problems: Philips had a demonstration in the 80's, where they drilled a 0.5 cm hole in a cd, and it would still play without skipping.

    In the 90's there was a big internet scare about pin-holes when these were "first discovered" (a friend showed them to me back when CD was new):
    Some music journalist discovered after moving to a different house, that a lot of his CD's wouldn't play anymore. Suspecting the Cd's, he started checking them out, and found a lot of them had these pinholes. This triggered a huge wave of concern: Websites and magazines ran articles about precious music collections degrading into worthless heaps of plastic, and many second hand CD stores refused to take in CD's with pinholes (some still do).

    Why on earth the CD's were labeled the culprit, and nobody ever even suggested that maybe the journalists CD player took a little abuse/bumps during the moving process remains a mystery to me.

    I own dozens of discs with pin-holes, some just a few, but others look like a starry night when held against a light. They all still play fine after 20 years or more.
    If you are worried about them, because they look abnormal (larger, or elongated for example) it might be worth to thoroughly check the label side of the disc for scratches and other forms of damage: The paint job on the top is the alluminium's only protection: scratch it and the alluminium will evaporate over time.
     
  12. rock76

    rock76 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northwest MEX

    Thanks for your very informative post!
     
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    I don't understand you guys. Are you all like 23 or something?

    Pinholes in CDs were so common, the 24kt Gold CD was invented to solve the problem. Our old DCC ads always talked about the pin holes and how the Gold sputtering process solved the problem.

    Hold almost any old silver CD up to the light, prepare to be dismayed...
     
  14. polod

    polod Member

    I had a Christopher Hogwood (Mozart's Requiem) L' Osye Lyre CD manufactured by PDO that I bought around 1985-86 and it was filled with pinholes, not just a couple but probably more than a hundred pinholes or more. When you held it up to the light. It was so bad, it almost looked like the milky way. Anyway, the cd still played perfectly, so I wouldn't be worried too much. Like somebody else said, it was a defect in the way the cd was sputtered with aluminum.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  15. Platterpus

    Platterpus Senior Member

    I've never had playback problems with any CD with pinholes.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  16. 926am

    926am Senior Member

    Location:
    rochester, ny
    I had that exact same cd, and yes, full of pin holes. In fact, this is the cd that immediately comes to mind when talking about pinholes.....my first classical cd by the way.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  17. bluesky

    bluesky Senior Member

    Location:
    south florida, usa
    Exchange it. Ya gotta take a stand. You paid hard earned good money for it, you should get a quality product. As long as they can pass the low quality junk off on people and no one says anything or complains, 'they win'. Take it back for exchange. End of Story.

    Seems like everything is 'low quality' now-a-days. I even bought a toilet seat from Home Depot, got home, opened it up and 'IT' was broken brand new. Took it back for a replacement...time and gas. It's too much for me really. I take things back at the drop of a hat, it's principal.
     
  18. havefun6699

    havefun6699 Senior Member

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Once I had Robert Fripp "Let The Power Fall" CD with a hole that size like somebody stuck a pretty thick needle through. It played with a couple of clicks that I didn't notice initially. Not very strange if you remember the music.
     
  19. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Why not fix to the front of an old shoe-box to make a perfect pin-hole camera?
     
    noway likes this.
  20. boiledbeans

    boiledbeans Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    You should try ripping it first.

    I had a relatively modern CD (2005, Editors - Back Room) with pin-holes.

    I was very surprised when it ripped in EAC and had full AccurateRip matches!
     
  21. rock76

    rock76 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Northwest MEX
    I've got a refund :)
     
  22. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I remember in the mid 80's in the early days of cds, a store owner ordered 3 or 4 copies of an ELO compilation from Europe that was (I think) the first ELO on cd. He showed me one and told me to hold it up to the light. It was riddled with pinholes; turns out all of them were and he sent them back to the distributor.
     
  23. TVC15

    TVC15 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Odd. No pinholes on any of my y/b Beatles vinyl.
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    California
    There is a hole right in the middle of mine.
     
    danielbravo likes this.
  25. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Forum Resident

    Digging up this thread from a couple months ago. Here's my story....

    I just today received a 'like new' 80's Japan for USA non-Target Atlantic copy of Houses Of The Holy which has both numerous pinholes AND some strong 'cloudiness' on the aluminum data layer. The cloudiness is only visible when looking through the disc with a bright backlight, hence the impression of the disc seeming to be 'like new.' The cloudiness actually looks more like dark creases or crimps in stressed plastic. The result of these defects (likely from manufacturing + time) is that there is VERY audible static throughout most tracks. Listening to it reminds me of playing a well-worn vinyl LP with static buildup. It sounds like a needledrop gone bad!

    Fortunately, the seller was very understanding and promptly issued a full refund and told me to keep the coaster, er, CD. At least the booklet is near mint! By the way, the CD really looks near mint cosmetically without the bright light.

    Take a look at the three attached photos - apologies for them being out of focus. Two of them show dark horizontal lines, one show a few of the pinholes. Perhaps this will help others who experience an audio static issue on a CD that otherwise looks cosmetically flawless.

    Greg
     

    Attached Files:

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