Seeking recommendations for sanely-priced full-range speakers

I'll admit I'm a little surprised AN sells speakers for $750, I'd have figured their least expensive offering was substantially more.

 

I buy gear based on stated specs, and that's what I quote. Futzing around with "calibrated equipment" trying to catch the manufacturer lying sounds a bit like OCD to me.

 

I kind of sensed that...

 

and just which model might that be?

 

I think it is the one that says "not currently available" on their webpage.

 

its just a reality that full range drivers (especially reasonably priced ones) tend to sound congested with louder (or electric as the OP put it ) music, i.e. with full range music. They might sound super with acoustic and jazz though. they can sound decent at low volume listening in the nearfield though in my experience. but usually they just do not suit rock music etc well.

 

I tend to look at things based on value for the dollar more than just like dislike - but the AX One IMO is too expensive for what you get. Ditto for the AZ One and Two floorstanders. I like the AZ Three and AX Two for their budget friendly speakers. That is 2 out of 5 or only 40% of their budget offerings. Hardly a ringing bias.

With Amplifiers I don't care for any of their SORO amplifiers nor their Push Pull versions of the SORO or OTO. I must say I love the new Meishu Tonmeister but I didn't like the previous version much that they sold for 25+ years.

This has been the case with most companies where I may like one model and not another - I liked the CDM2 from B&W not the CDM 1(the more expensive speaker) I also preferred the B&W DM 302 over the replacements - Paradigm 100V2 to the V3 that followed - the reference 3a MM De Capo with silk dome to the replacement with a BE tweeter.

I have said this for many years - almost every company on the market makes very VERY few products. Take Sugden - sure if someone is looking for a an under $4k amp I will recommend their A21a but can you honestly say that Sugden's speakers or CD players are considered really spectacular or that they are "known for" their speakers? Of course you can't. So on a forum I recommend their one amp on an amp thread.

I can recommend Pure Audio Project speakers - but only on a speaker thread - they don't make anything else.

The reason AN comes up for me "all the time" is because A) they make everything and B) they typically make it at all price points and C) unlike most companies they are actually a jack of all trades and a master of all of them (unlike a Linn or a Naim or a Sugden or a Rega etc).

So if it is an amplifier forum and someone is looking for tubes/Single Ended tube amps and AN isn't mentioned when they arguably make the very best internal parts - then it is being remiss and biased NOT to recommend an AN amplifier of one stripe or another.

Sources - well what can you say - even Martin Colloms the measurements guru tested their DAC against the juggernaut hi-res DACs and gave the An the highest rating in the history of the entire publication - basically saying it sounded twice as good as the next best thing.

Speakers - well a lot of reviewers buy em across the globe and now in the recording mastering side of things to boot so that isn't too bad for what amounts to being a somewhat tertiary business.

I repeat again - you would see a lot more recommendations from me for other brands if those other brands made more products and if all of them were on equal measures of quality.

There is no company that I have come across where I like everything they make - this includes car brands, or watches. Maybe you like the Subaru Forrester but it doesn't mean you will like the WRX or Legacy sedan. Maybe you like the Toyota Camry not the Yaris.

Take long time tube maker Copland - according to their website they make a total of 6 products. Audio Note makes ~700. There is simply a far greater chance of liking stuff from Audio Note than Copland. It's basically a numbers game.

 

So, you won't recommend a Kondo?

 

Not too many folks go on forums and ask for $100,000 amp recommendations. LOL And I have not heard Kondo in years because there are so few dealer.

 

All that is just your opinion and it's so obviously biased toward Audio Note that you might as well go to work as an AN rep. I believe folks would take you more serious in that capacity than as an objective reviewer.

Personally, I wasn't very impressed with the AN-Es I heard (I think they were the $6 or $8K model, whichever that is of their dozen plus variations). The top end was too strident. It was obvious the cabinets were adding coloration to make for a more interesting sound. The bass was deep but bloated and the imaging was poor - I would guess due to their corner placement. They had their strengths but certainly were not without weaknesses. Maybe the $25K models sound awesome, one would certainly expect so at that price, but how good can the base models be when they have to allow for a performance gap that spans six figures?

And where can one find non-kit AX or AZ-ones for $750 in the U.S. where the OP resides? And where can one even audition these entry-level models?

 

Of course they don't let the public know what their pricing actually is.

Yes, confusing, isn't it?

You noticed that too?

It is interesting that they do not choose to post pricing on their web site. Here is what they list (partial listing) for the AN-E speaker line.

 

Whenever anyone talks on an internet forum about what is good or bad on a subjective preference topic it is an opinion.

I have followed AN E reviews for a long time and it is not just my opinion. And other reviewers have been far more over the top in praise of their speakers over the years than me.

The have been selling for around 40 years. My version of the speaker won speaker of the year by the press in Asia and the AN K won back in 2010. The AN room often win best sound of audio show. Reviewers at Stereophile, dagogo (other than me), 6moons, Hi Fi choice, positive feedback, hi fi critic, Tone Audio, Audiophile have and had reviewers buy AN speakers...

Yes I have heard them sound not good myself. Oh well. So it goes sometimes.

Indeed, you think I am over the top. How about Wes Philip's of Stereophile and his show report called Ongaku Means Ecstacy.

 

The reality is when you have 700 items for sale and prices can change monthly then it is pretty difficult to keep updating prices. Most all audio companies make say 10 items. They make a deal with the Chinese factory to build 200 units at a set price. Make me 200 amplifiers at $200 each and sell them for $2,000 each. They then stock 170 of the amps in their warehouse. All the costs are known.

AN is basically a custom order outfit. If you order XYZ in January it might cost AN $1,200 to make it. If you order it in June it may cost $1,400 to make it. In December it could drop back to $1,200. I have seen their prices go up then down. That's the nature of the beast. And AN has so many back orders that they probably don't care if some people are put off by that. If you don't buy it 50 other people will.

 

PS: being an objective reviewer means that you should actually state honest opinions. Not try and suggest every product is great regardless of price. I could tell you 100 speakers are great. Just fantastic. Or I can tell you what I think.

People have problems with me in general because I tell you what I think and it so happens that YOUR speaker may not be in the 10% of audio that I think is good.

B&W fans won't like me saying that I think the speakers lack cohesion and the tweeters ring like a dinner bell.

Spendor fans won't like when I say there is a stridency in the upper midrange lower treble and again lack cohesivness

Magnepan fans won't like when I say their speaker lack resolution and create a sameness due to a lack of dynamics and weight.

Quad fans won't like when I say they are too expensive for a speaker that has such huge dynamic compression, lack bass and treble extension

That the LS 3/5a also has a mediocre driver integration an sound sibilant , lack bass, dynamics, scale and weight.

That Wilson tends to boom and sizzle. Poor driver integration and generally grossly overpriced.

The above is being objective. Most reviewers would not say one bad word about all the above brands. And this is a tip of the iceberg as to what I think about most of the utter junk that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

The fact is people only ever want objectivity IF and ONLY if that opinion agrees with them.

And some reviewers like Wes went over the top with commentary of praise but also what he said about EVERY other room at the show. There is some Truth Jack Nicholson eould tell you that you can't handle.

Ongaku Means Ecstasy

 

Well, both produce models of far better value than what AN offers, but fan boys will be fan boys I suppose.

 

Don't you say anything bad about Wharfedale now, because:

 

In your opinion.

Afraid to follow the link I see. Couldn't handle it. And from a SS owning measurements first kind of reviewer no less.

 

I still have my Wharfedale Vanguard speakers from 1990. The fact that I still have them should tell you something. I wish they would bring these ones back but they would likely cost too much - they were $2200 back in 1990 so ...

 

Well, it seems as if a certain person has infiltrated this thread (I had a feeling it wouldn't take long). Out of the thousands of people who post on this board ~ this is the only person I have to set to "ignore", so even though I can't see his posts ... I can see that it is turned into the usual argumentative AN vs brand X biased, fan boy, crap as usual.

Not a fan of their stuff either, but if you don't like the cheaper AN-E's, I doubt you'd be impressed with the upper end ones either, no matter how much upgraded silver wire is poured into them ~ the same esoteric design and premises are still there.

 

Well for someone who puts me on their ignore list you sure like talking about me a lot - Baby "You've got me, under your skin" LOL What can I say?

 

Yes in my opinion, which is just as valid as yours. Actually, your blanket statements applied to the aforementioned brands just proves your lack of experience and/or arrogance.

A six figure system sounded great. Never would've guessed...

I'm not a "measurements first" sort, but since you mention it, AN's measure like garbage and unlike some other brands that do so, but still manage to sound good, the sq of the ANs I heard reflected their measurements. Really not at all impressive considering their price.

 

What I learned in audio is there are too many variables involved in audio systems and listeners . Then there is the ignorance is bliss factor .I takes going out and listening other systems to help one understand what is possible in music reproduction . So instead of bickering on forums go out and listen . Pay attention to the space and the gear used in that space . Learn by listening

 

Agreed. Going to listen this year at NY Audio Show.

Last time I went was in 2016. Remember being impressed like hell by Paradigm Persona 9's driven by T+A gear and by Technics SB-R1's. Remember being somewhat impressed by Volti Rivals and Ohm Walsh, as well as by Sadurni's huge horns (mainly for the fact they were driven by 1 W amps).

Don't remember being impressed by AN, GamuT, and OMA rooms. Remember being completely put off by Martin Logan's big electrostatics.

 

I can easily imagine being put off by pretty much any big electrostatics. It’s been my impression that in addition to their hunger for power/current and their deficiencies in the lower registers, they require a highly specialized set up which pretty much requires a good sized room dedicated to them and nothing else. I’m sure there are some wonderful big electrostatics set up under proper conditions, but the few I have heard were set up in conditions that were just not right. In a stereo store they didn’t have enough space around them. In a friend’s living room they were like a couple of refrigerators placed in the traffic flow.

 

Happy New Year . I was at that show as well . I am a Ohm owner and like there sound but wanted something different after going out and listening to other speakers . I am now using a Madisound kit speaker the Klang & Ton NADA with Lee Taylor cabinets . I found the Martin Logan system much too harsh on there digital front end vinyl was better . The problem with shows is the rooms . My approach to audio is find a speaker that plays the room and then match it to a amp that can drive it properly . I will be at the NY show this year as well