Shades Of Deep Purple – Some theories about the mastertape and my conclusion

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sathvyre, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. GreenFuz

    GreenFuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    I was surprised when I heard it with my own ears but I agree with you that the Polydor Shades is the one to beat.

    I've never included the WEA in a shootout but I'll make it a priority next chance I have. I'll be even more surprised if it turns out to be a contender because so few Canadian pressings are.
     
    kelhard likes this.
  2. GreenFuz

    GreenFuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Shades of Deep Purple - Tetragrammaton (U.S.), Polydor (Can), Warner Bros. (Can)

    Hey, sathvyre.

    This is what I hear:

    Polydor (Can) - More high end sparkle and tighter bass than the Tetragrammaton.

    Warner Bros. (WEA, Can) - A bit muddier than the Tetragrammaton.
    I'd guess that I'm hearing an extra tape generation with similar EQ, i.e. this ain't the grail.


    Dead wax and other details :

    Tetragrammaton Records No. T-102
    S1:
    T
    7707
    D-2
    HW-DCT

    S2:
    T
    7708
    D-1
    LL-DCT

    ---

    Polydor 543.007
    A production of Tetragrammaton Records
    (rim text in English & French)

    S1:
    543-007-A-2

    S2:
    543-007-B

    ---

    Warner Bros. WS 4516
    Manufactured and distributed by WEA Music of Canada, Ltd.
    Burbank label
    (Side 2 ends with the last chord of "Hey Joe.")

    S1:
    WSPT-1148-1B
    C2-HKD

    S2:
    WSPT-1149-1A
    C2-HDK
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
  3. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Thank you very much for lots of information !!! So there is no need to find a WEA copy of "Shades...". Now it's time to locate an excellent copy of the canadian Polydor, cause my copy has some audible scratches.
     
  4. GreenFuz

    GreenFuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Just as a footnote to the WEA Canada conclusion, I've been reminded that the C2-HKD/HDK inscriptions are Columbia or CBS, whichever that was in Canada in 1973. There's no way anything close to masters was going to be parceled off to them, here or anywhere.
    It brings to mind the Atlantic & Elektra cuts that were done in the U.S. by Columbia in that era.
     
  5. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Very interesting post, thank you very much.
    After another critical listening to the canadian and german pressings, none of them were sourced from a master I think. They have many phasing issues which could be a proof of a misaligned tape machine. The best-sounding vinyl versions are the japanese Warner Bros LPs, but unfortunately they are incomplete (no steps and door after "Hey Joe").
     
  6. Folknik

    Folknik Forum Resident

    I remember those sounds at the end of the original Tetragrammaton album. I've never understood why they were omitted on later pressings. Maybe someone switched it off at the end of "Hey Joe" and never knew those sounds were there?
     
  7. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    This is exactly what I think.
     
    Folknik likes this.
  8. elaterium

    elaterium Forum Resident

    Wasn't aware of that. But, they don't add anything I don't think.
     
  9. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Incomplete is incomplete. The album was intended to end with the steps and the door, so it should be part of all versions and editions, otherwise it is mutilated.
     
    FVDnz, s320no and dkmonroe like this.
  10. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I agree. Gotta wonder about the source when something's chopped off the end. I assume that the engineer didn't just turn off the tape machine too soon.
     
  11. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    A missing end could either indicate a damaged tape or a dub, used for an incomplete edition.
     
    s320no and dkmonroe like this.
  12. Folknik

    Folknik Forum Resident

    Since there are other sound effects on the album (howling wolf, outer space sounds,etc.) and "Hey Joe" begins with a police siren, I interpreted the footsteps and door slam at the end to be the police locking Joe in a cell. Without that closing sound effect, maybe he got away with murder.
     
  13. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    Nice interpretation !
     
    kelhard and Folknik like this.
  14. ramdom

    ramdom Hoarder Hearing

    Location:
    Perth ON, Canada
    I am blown away by the attention to detail and obsessive sleuthing of the OP. I like a great recording as much as the next guy but this seems out of balance. However, assuming he loves the record in question, his investigation is admirable although beyond my understanding.
     
    Mazzy likes this.
  15. Remurmur

    Remurmur Music is THE BEST! -FZ

    Location:
    Ohio


    Nicely done.

    Shades Of Deep Purple is one of my favorite Deep Purple albums, so I found your article very informative, and a nice read.

    And by the way, your English usage and your writing ability are both exemplary ...:)
     
  16. Remurmur

    Remurmur Music is THE BEST! -FZ

    Location:
    Ohio
    Yep. Creative Sound it was and sonically pleasing they weren't.

    I owned all three Creative Sounds Purple Mk 1's . I found them all sealed in a CD bargain bin for ...I swear... $.50 each.

    I still felt ripped off...:)
     
    jstger6969 likes this.
  17. kelhard

    kelhard Forum Resident

    Hi Sathvyre.

    AWESOME post!!! You certainly presented a few things that I never knew about. I listened to the original EMI CD (CDP 7 92407 2) and yes I can certainly hear where they edited the needledrop onto Hey Joe. It sticks out like a sore thumb. The soundstage is much narrower. Plus you can definitely hear a few clicks and pops I next took a vinyl rip done by Pbthal of a Parlophone pressing and there certainly is NO edit. And Pbthal's rip is extremely clean. I don't think he used a first pressing, though. The photos he included with his rip show a 70's era Parlophone label with 2 "boxed" EMI logos, one at the top of the label, one at the bottom. Originals had the black label with yellow logo I believe. But did EMI do another mastering/cut for the later pressings (including the Harvest reissues) or did they use the same stampers and used different labels. I'm unsure. One would have to check all the dead wax info.

    Great post and awesome work. Looking forward to seeing more info as it becomes available.

    Oh, and Remurmur, I found the Creative Sounds CD's as well, on a label called Power Sound 2000 which was another Creative Sounds offshoot. For these CD's, they simply copied the US Passport CD's. One dead giveaway is the added echo trailing off at the end of "Chasing Shadows". I have a Passport Shades on CD and Passport Taliesyn on vinyl. A friend of mine had the Passport 3rd album on CD. So when I picked up the Power Sound 2000 reissues ($2.00 each in the cheap bin) I knew that I was getting needledrops but didn't know they copied the Passport CD's

    Sorry to threadcrap, but wanted to point this out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  18. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    The only UK versions with a complete tape source are the YEX 689-1 / YEX 690-1 matrix pressings. They were also available with EMI two box labels in the early seventees. The variations with the pasted vinyl end are the YEX 689-2 / YEX 690-2 matrixes. They were used for later EMI two box pressings, the 1977 Harvest Heritage series and the 1997 EMI 100 Centenary LP.

    So the Passport / Power Sound 2000 CDs are no needledrops ??? I never heard these CDs.
     
  19. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    I hace a Creative SOunds copy and it is definitely bad. Downloaded a 2011 (Japan?) version that sounds immeasurably better
     
  20. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    I don't care about the steps and door shutting... ;)
    When I want hear this end, I listen to my Warner CD.
     
  21. ArpMoog

    ArpMoog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I have a nm first US pressing and thought it was just a lo fi s/t album by a new band without a lot of money or support.
    little did i know. Does anyone else think the cover of Help was inspired by Vanilla Fudge.
    I love this record and am playing it right now due to this great thread.
    Could we see a new pressing from the master tape in the near future?
    I always thought the phasing was just part of the recording again what did I know.
    Thanks to the op.
     
    Mister Charlie likes this.
  22. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    The phasing is NOT on the recording. Listen carefully to a UK first pressing or the Tetragrammaton original pressing. Both don't have these issues. But if you listen to a german first pressing or the canadian Polydor, you will hear the phasing stuff there. Also the 1973 / 1977 Warner Bros LPs from Japan sounds great, same for the Japan CD editions (1989 or remaster 1996). Very strange to me that the latest 2014 remaster have these issues, cause the 2000 remaster sounds much more clean.
    WE NEED A FLAT TRANSFER FROM THE ORIGINAL MASTERTAPE PLEASE !!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
    kelhard and ArpMoog like this.
  23. kelhard

    kelhard Forum Resident

    Hi Sath.

    Yes the Passport issues were done as needledrops, but not the same sources as the Creative Sounds LP's and cassettes. The exception is with Taliesyn where it sounds much like the Creative Sounds LP on the first 4 songs, and a different source for the last 3. The Power Sound 2000's are rips of the Passport CD's. Lousy. The Passport Shades is odd because the engineers really EQed the music portions and re-edited the intro effects back on. It really stands out, especially on "And The Address"

    There's been newer vinyl re-issues in the US that are on Tetragrammaton, but again these are pirates. I don't know the sources used for these ones. I'm not shelling out money for what I know will more than likely be needledrops. The purple vinyl pressing of Shades looks pretty. I've seen pics on Discogs.
     
  24. Mister Charlie

    Mister Charlie "Music Is The Doctor Of My Soul " - Doobie Bros.

    Location:
    Aromas, CA USA
    I'm surprised the US Tetra is thought of well (original issue), I had the LP since it came out and it always sounded like crap. The Creative CD I got sounded better than the vinyl, but not much. Finally hearing a Japanese vsn I was able to hear actual stereo and fidelity (the LP was a narrow mono mess). I still have the LP but have not bothered with it for years
     
  25. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe
    The new Tetragrammaton LPs are pirates. The 2000 CD remaster was used for that pressing...so it makes it the only available vinyl version which was taken from a remastered mastertape instead of a bad tape dub or a needledrop.
     

Share This Page