Simple LP to CD Program

Oh, I know already. I don't understand it, but that's just me. I'm just one of those technically oriented, anal retentive music-lovers. I say, if you are going to put something on CD, make something you will be proud of.

Yes, CD Creator Deluxe's "Spin Doctor" can do this, but it is terrible at splitting the tracks. That is one task that is best left to doing it yourself.

Also, one can set any quality de-clicker to clean the files quite well, even in a batch file, but it still won't remove everything perfectly. But, again, i'm very fussy about getting those clicks OUT! I go through every single second of the music, listening very carefully for clicks and other noises, and remove them manually.

 

I've never noticed it. 32Hz is a very low "C", and nothing I've transfered so far has anything that low. (Mainly 60's LPs.) I tend to EQ the bass somewhat, usually backing down a small mid-bass hump and maybe touching up the lower end. Depending on the condition of the vinyl, the added clarity of the filtering offsets any bass loss.

If I were doing my disco 12" collection, though, I would definitely not filter it. Need that "whack".

CD Architect is good for putting in track markers. Individual WAV files, or all one large file, it works about the same. I like that I can adjust track starts almost microscopically.

I usually do a final listen to the entire project, after filtering, to see if it missed any clicks or ticks. It usually catches them all, and I don't think I find more than a dozen to take out after the fact.

 

I think you are referring to that "cloud" that many engineer types remove. I don't.

Thing is, I can hear musical content all the way down below 20Hz, and I can hear how removing some of that will affect the music. But, If I get a record with very light bass, I may artificially boost it's presence with a bit of low-end compression. I'll compress anywhere from 30Hz to about 60Hz. I never compress the top end or midrange.

What I do is when i'm done with the restoration project, just before dithering to 16-bit, any RMS boost, or burning to CD-R, I also listen to the entire project through the stereo monitors with the dither and noise shaping applied (Cool Edit Pro can do this...) to catch any other clicks. The reason I do it this way is because some dithering/noise shaping will actually accentuate clicks so you can hear them better. It also gives me a good approximation of how the converters in my Sony CD player will play the disc.

If I burn the CD and then hear a click, i'll go back to the 32-bit version on the hard drive and fix it there, prep the repaired track for burning, then burn a new copy of the whole CD-R.

I'll have to admit, I am lighter-handed with the de-click software than you are. That's why I wind up with more clicks I must remove by hand.

AS you may know, I also clean up surface noise. Many here are under the belief that all NR is brute force, and therefore shouldn't be used. I have found settings in Cool Edit that allows me to do extremly light NR and still be effective.

 

I was actually going to ask if anyone had ever used any limiting or compressing to make something sound a little punchier. I was working on a project for a friend from a really dull recording and just tested it with the limiter and it sounded a bit punchier and a bit more alive. Maybe I will try compressing it on the low end and see what happens. I kind have been brainwashed with this site to not touch anything, but since I am not working from any kind of master tape, I guess we should so what we can to improve these projects a bit.

 

I think you are referring to that "cloud" that many engineer types remove. I don't.

Thing is, I can hear musical content all the way down below 20Hz, and I can hear how removing some of that will affect the music. [/B][/QUOTE]

To me it depends on the recordings. The majority of 60's-era recordings I transfer have nothing much below 35Hz. If that's the case, I filter it, and A/B-ing it, if I hear no difference other than the rumble, I'll leave the filter on. Better, newer recorded material I'll leave alone, since I can hear (or better yet, feel) a difference. If it's bad vinyl, I'll use it regardless. Fortunately I don't have many that are that bad.

For declicking though, I always invert the filter so I can hear what it's taking out, then adjust it so no music gets clipped. I let it do its work, and usually find I have few ticks to remove. (I usually just draw them out with a pencil.) The quieter tracks can take a higher setting, so I'll run those songs through on a second pass. If I've totally screwed up, I'll just start from the original with a clean filter setting.

I rarely find a need for NR anymore, having clean recordings to start with. I've only used it on one CD, and it didn't adversely affect the sound. I couldn't hear much of a difference, but the meters on average showed a drop of 3-6dB in the vinyl background noise. The vinyl was very quiet to begin with. This one was one of those A&M/CTi albums, repressed in the 80's on Quiex (Audio Master Plus series). Very nice pressings. Most of these CTi's have a major problem, though (even back in their original pressings)--there is a very ugly mid-bass hump in all of them, making them muddy and overly warm. On this CD, I cut down that hump, and it really sounds nice now!

I also use just a little compression...again, I rarely notice it. Most of the time it does nothing, but it catches an occasional peak. I like to think I'm keeping the signal in a more linear range for the PCM data. EQ? You bet. A flat transfer from some of these LPs is just that--flat, as in dull and lifeless. Some minor tweakage really opens up the top end so you can hear the brushes on the cymbals, or the wound strings on a bass. And again, cutting back on a slight mid-bass hump and adding a little weight to the bottom really brings it into focus as well, better definition in the primary bass notes.

I admit my earlier projects were more filtered, but now I just get by on whatever minimal filtering I need to take care of problems. A lot of A/B-ing. Tedious sometimes, but worth it.

And everyone else things we are nuts!

 

You got that right!

 

I wish someone would create a groove wear filter. I have some 45's I'd like to put onto CD, but with that wear, they're not pleasant to listen to. Zooming in on a track with groove wear, there is a very clear signature to the wear. I'd gladly pay a few bucks to have that kind of filtering. It's like the missing link in my cleanup chain.

It's tempting to trade CD-Rs with others here who do a lot of cleanup, just to compare each others' work. I'll cut out now before we bore the rest of the natives to death.

 

I usually turn each track into an individual file, unless there are segues or crossfades. This way I can check and correct the fade outs. Some older LPs have terrible fade outs (cutoffs, distortion, noise, etc.).

 

The Waves Restoration plug-in does wonders for this! Just be prepared to pay 1G for it! I have restored lots of "lost cause" vinyl with the two-week trial version. The bad thing is, if you do use the trial version, it will attach itself to your registry. I figured out the name of it, but haven't tried to delete the the keys. The pro guys have lamented on how difficult Waves can be on their computers, to the point of searching for cracked copies.

I do this too. I split up those crossfaded tracks to my liking and can pinpoint my track ranges with pinpoint accurracy with Cool Edit. The reason I always break up tracks into individual files is so that I can restore each and every track individually. I sometimes recreate the gaps to match the gaps on the LP or tape. Other times, i'll take liberties and optimize the gaps to my liking. I preserve the original fades.

 

Grant: we should write a book.

One thing I like about doing one side of an LP as one track is that I can preserve the exact spacing I'm used to. As for cleanup of quieter tracks, I can usually just highlight the song and run the filter on the selection. Again it depends on the project--for an Xmas project I did, just about everything was in separate tracks. Had four LP copies of one album, and tracks pulled from other LPs, CDs, and a 44.1kHz WAV file someone actually sent to me via instant messenger...all 60+MB of it!

That "Waves Restoration" sounds neat. I've got enough computing horsepower now that I shouldn't have a problem with it. As for the trial version, in XP I could set a restore point, install it, use it, then roll back to before the last restore point.

My computers are in disarray right now, so I haven't been able do any LP work except for projects I started many months ago. The IDE crapped out on one of my motherboards, and I just got a new one a weekend ago. So once I can get my drives back into that computer, I should be ready to edit again.

 

I was just thinking, too, about some of the CDs I've purchased where they have located a rare track that only exists on a 45. Roger Nichols & The Small Circle of Friends is a good example. The "Complete" version collects all the 45s along with the original LP. "Our Day Will Come" is sourced from a 45, which still has pops and clicks in it, and groove wear. They could have at leasted cleaned up those pops and clicks--I burned myself a new CD after I cleaned up that track, and gave it an EQ cut in the mid-bass so that it now matches the other tracks tonally. Other than traces of groove wear, it's much improved...and it took me less than an hour!

 

Rudy, boy I hear you regarding 45s mastered to CD. In many cases major labels do a rotten job. What's really a drag, though, is picking up boots of 50s R&B/doo-wop or 60s soul sourced entirely from vinyl--in most cases absolutely terrible. I've spent weeks redoing entire CDs and I've got a backlog of dozens more to do. But the results are quite satisfying. AND I then sell the originals on eBay and recoup my investment.

 

Oh, I can still do that when breaking the sides up into individual tracks by either simply not chopping the song off at the fade, and/or timing the LP gap and duplicating it with the CD burning software.

Also, I also know what you mean by the labels doing a crappy clean up job of vinyl sources, but then, they just don't have the time or budget.

 

What should I do if I have a pre-exsiting "live" CD that has the tracks separated with quick fade ins/outs and I want to restore it to it's original "continuous" form with no audible breaks. I also want to be able to retain or insert the track IDs. I have both a Mac G4 and a PC at my disposal. I'm just not sure what program can do this. I currently have Adaptec Jam (Mac) and Nero (PC).

 

With Roxio CD Creator, you can write the CD in "Disc At Once" mode, which burns the CD with absolutely no space between tracks (but with correct track indexes).

In your case, it sounds like you may need to get rid of some fade ins/outs. For this, I would use Cool Edit to chop off the offending portion in each track.

Maybe there's an easier way to do this, but this is how I would tackle it with the stuff in my toolbox.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but how do I remoce clicks and pops "manually" in Cool Edit Pro? I recently did an LP to CD transfer, but being a novice, I couldn't figure out how to declick the odd large click by hand. I didn't try any of the filters BTW. In one case I copied and pasted a tiny segment over the top of a click, which worked OK, but seemed rather a clunky fix to me. Any tips gratefully welcomed.

 

Blow up the click so that it takes up most of the screen. Highlight the center-most peak (or block if you zoom in that much). Open the Click/Pop Elimnator. Single Click Fix it. The settings I use are FFT-128 Pop-30 Run Size-64. This works perfect for me.

If anyone has any good settings for declicking entire waves, please pass them on.

 

There is a program by a Holland company called the Sound recorder
and Editor, they have a free download for evaluation.I've been using
it for a couple of months , I've tried a few other programs this one seems
to be the most straightforward! Here's the link for the company:
www.polderbilts.com
Good luck,
txguitar