Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - Come Dance with Me (released 1959)*

I heard them.

Why can't Capitol just release the dry stereo and mono tracks?

 

It's certainly be interesting to hear dry versions of the stereo titles.

Not sure that in the end they would all be preferable that way, a bit of 'verb is probably necessary.

Though as I posted somewhere back in this thread, I would like a good sounding CDWM, in stereo, presented dryer than it is on most of the releases. The Norberg CD is pretty dry, but has far too many other sonic issues.

 

No (relatively) dry vs. wet mono tapes here. The live mix had a lot of echo to begin with. The 3 tracks are dry, but are unfinished and too dry to just thread up and release as is with the channels pushed up. A good new stereo mix is needed...

 

Never too dry for me

 

Dry or wet aside, the 'Romance' cut of CTC has too much funky NR on it to be acceptable, IMO.

That dry alternate take of 'Nice N' Easy' needed some reverb. Sinatra sounds like he's singing inside a closet on that.

 

Interesting about the Dell pressing. I have a bunch of Nat King Cole albums done by Dell in the same period. I haven't listened to them in a while, but always assumed they must be sub-par because of the digital mastering. Maybe I'll listen to them again.

 

Matt, a small note about the cover on my "SM" pressing - it does not have the Capitol Records High Fidelity Recording logo. In its place is "A Capitol Re-Issue", with SM-1069 below that.

 

My mistake. I saw those two side by side, and glazed over that part of your notes earlier...

 

From that short sample I agree that the sound of the '84 Dell 'CDWM' LP hardens up a bit but with the gain of some 'clarity.' I'd definitely buy one if I see it.

I'd still like to know what accounts for these LP's being so superior to the rest. The yellow and green LP's match each other surprisingly close, due to their being mastering relations. But the Dell doesn't fall too far from the tree either, despite it's being very distinct from the other two.

They didn't prepare a new 2 track mix which was then utilized for all of these did they? I'd doubt Capitol would have gone to the expense and trouble for these already decades old albums, at a time when they wouldn't have likely sold in very high numbers.

 

As far as the stereo LP's go, the older ones (coming from the superior, 2nd mix) most always sound lackluster to poor because they got screwed with too much. At the least, the N14 side two made it through with good fidelity, but I don't know of others from back then that can touch it. They might be out there, but I've given up looking for now. After that, it's reissues only if you want good sound on this album.

I get the impression that cutting moves were decided upon (for one reason or another), and they were typically followed, at least through the '60's, with an occasional engineer smartly ignoring that and mastering it better (and more honest to the tape).

 

I never noticed differences in echo level on them, Matt, just mastering differences that might affect it.

 

I finally cleaned and listened to my yellow label copy tonight.

The things that struck me the most were the clarity and the wide soundstage. Songs like "Saturday Night" and "The Song is You" explode from the speakers! A tad more echo than I like still, but it's a minor complaint.

 

Martin, is there a way to identify the first mix by matrix info? I just picked up a super clean original 9 o'clock STEREO copy of Come Dance With Me with handwritten matrix numbers:
SW-1-1069-D11 2 *
SW-2-1069-D11 1 *
I haven't had a chance to listen yet, hope it's a good one...

 

Aaron, it would be hard. It comes down to knowing what was the first cut that was taken from the replacement mix, both for LA and NY. I don't know what it is. Even then, it'd be interesting if they ever used it again, by mistake if the original stereo mix tapes weren't destroyed. I don't think they were used years later, but...

Besides the clips on Matt's site, it's pretty easy to tell if you have the first or second mix - the first one has somewhat detached sounding echo coming off of Frank's voice, sent to the right.

D11 has the first (inferior) mix - I have a copy. Pressing made in L.A. as well.

 

Thanks martin!