Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - Come Dance with Me (released 1959)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by serge, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    Mono version has more punch. I unloaded the stereo.
     
    Vinyl_Blues likes this.
  2. SCOTT1234

    SCOTT1234 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scotland
    I think the mono backing track is a bit more brassy and in your face, but the reverb on Frank's vocal is more noticeable - sometimes sounds as if you are actually listening to him in a large dance hall.

    Not sure why, but I usually prefer the stereo mix (the later stereo mix, that is), which has a lighter, airy, feel and the reverb on the vocal doesn't seem to stick out so much - maybe it fits in with the orchestra/band better somehow.
     
    rxcory likes this.
  3. ShockControl

    ShockControl Bon Vivant and Raconteur!

    Location:
    Lotus Land
    When was the later stereo mix done? I had a rainbow stereo and then and 80s pressing with the green label. I think they were both the same mix.
     
  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    As far as MMM and others have been able to track this stuff, the change from the original (defective) mix to the corrected version took place right around 1962. See posts 12, 98 & 99, and have a listen here:

    (removed)

    To my ears, the mono mix on this album is *okay,* but not stellar. MMM pointed our ears to a SM-/SN- series of reissues, which is excellent, as is (to my ears) the 1984 British reissue. Clips of these stereo reissues can be heard midway down this page:

    (removed)

    and on this page:

    (removed)

    Matt

    EDIT: links dead; clips removed due to copyright concerns.
     
  5. stavx79

    stavx79 Forum Resident

    Location:
    athens,greece
    Question about Frank Sinatra's US and UK Capitol LPs

    How do they compare sound-wise?
    For example, I own a mono 1959 UK of ' Come Dance With Me '.Is it similar to the US in regards to quality? Has anyone got two different copies and can enlighten me;or any knowledge on the subject??
    :help::)
     
  6. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
  7. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    It's not just Come Dance. It includes Come Fly also. Obviously a "gray market" release, resulting from the expiration of 50-year copyright protection in Europe. I'm sure the cover UK Amazon is showing is wrong. I doubt this will be any "jackpot."
     
  8. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    That's too bad....
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    It has been a while, but I have a significant update to the COME DANCE WITH ME comparisons. If you were a contributor, you can view the new material (involving a 1961 reel-to-reel release) at the bottom of this page and about midway down this page. Enjoy! .....and please share your comments.

    If you don't recall how to access the comparisons, let me know. (Sorry I can't make the samples available to the public, as they are quite interesting. Seriously. It sucks.)

    Matt
     
  10. stevelucille

    stevelucille Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rochester, NY USA
    I was hopeful about the Come Dance With Me Reel to Reel, but not really expecting too much. But I'm pleasantly surprised with the nice full sound. Maybe just because it's new to me, but I really like it!

    Now if only they had made it a 2 track!
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Tape damage aside, though, it's a very nice four-track tape, much nicer than I had expected. It's like quality still mattered back then!

    Matt
     
  12. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=5851628

    Matt, to my ears the saxes and trumpets sound closer to the mics on the mono version compared to the stereo (and your mono mix made from the '70's stereo LP).
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Copied over from another thread, for the record:

    It's a shame. The (Shelly Manne) drum roll intro is missing completely, leading into "Somethng's Gotta Give." At least, this particular UK box set CD did not get highest marks on Matt's scorecard, anyway.
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    To use a bit of a cliched reply: "I think it's just a mastering difference." I'll tinker some more maybe and see if I can make the results line up any better. (Won't happen right away, as I'm off for a week to Omaha and Washington, D.C.)

    Matt
     
  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I think this is from a COME DANCE WITH ME! session. From MPTV IMAGES:

    [​IMG]

    Does that look like a mic back away from Frank's right, past the carpet? It's hard to see clearly.
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    That mic appears to be "in storage," IMO. On stand by, maybe.

    Matt
     
  17. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    The Alan Dell UK Capitol LP is really musical sounding. It's only shortcoming to my ear is the solid state sound. It needs a little bit of warmth but may well be my favorite of the LP issues. But it does virtually everything right. The 9 O'Clock label Stereo originals just have the warmth down and the drive. It's a tossup between these and the new Capitol 180G which I find a nice play copy and love. The early run 4 track tapes are my overall favorites here on all of them in nice shape.
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    For some reason, this title fared better in the 4-track tape arena than some other Capitols. I just picked up a mint condition NICE 'n' EASY and thought it was only so-so, sonically speaking.

    The Dell is, indeed, excellent -- possibly my favorite. As for the new 180g release from a year or so ago, I wasn't too keen on that one, as it's folded in somewhat. I've heard worse, though, that's for sure.

    Matt
     
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    ^^^^^^^ I have to unequivocally renounce the above statement that I just made yesterday. I actually sat and compared the NICE 'N' EASY reel to LP pressings that I like, and it holds its own quite nicely; admirably, in fact. Both it and the COME DANCE WITH ME 7.5 ips reel are quite lovely.

    Matt
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Timeline question: When was it first revealed that Heinie Beau arranged some of these tracks? There's nothing on the LP that mentions this, yet it seems to be pretty common knowledge today. How/when did that (the conveying of the knowledge) come to pass?

    Matt
     
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Revealed? I don't know, but I'd imagine it was documented from the start.

    The discography by Ed O'Brien and Scott Sayers in the 1983 book THE FRANK SINATRA SCRAPBOOK notes it, and that's going back 27+ years now.
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    ...and that's at roughly the same time as MFSL's SINATRA set, which is where I first learned of it.

    I agree that it was most likely documented from day 1. I'm just wondering how word "got out."

    Mat
     
  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    If someone was reviewing session sheets, maybe for the musician's union, etc., for research on these things, I'd *think* that'd be it.
     
  24. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I can't answer the question, Matt, but I don't think it was a secret that had to be "revealed." Beau often ghost-wrote charts for May, and every discography and reference I own lists Beau as the arranger on three of the Come Dance songs. In particular, Nascimento Silva lists Beau without any extra notation, so his name is probably listed on the Capitol or union session sheets even if not on the album cover.
     
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Well, I don't mean that it's a secret. Here's all that I want to know, and maybe I wasn't clear, so bear with me. I guess it's this: When was it first published for public consumption that Heinie Beau arranged the pieces? I first learned of it with the MFSL box in the 80s. Was there any sort of discography or Billboard article or anything else that listed Beau as the arranger in, say, the 1970s? That's all that I'm trying to find out.

    Matt
     

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