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Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: Come Fly with Me (recorded 1957)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    (MODERATOR'S NOTE: This thread is a "split" from a former (still available) thread that dealt specifically with the 2009 Capitol pressings of three Sinatra titles, but often wandered into the area of comparing sound quality of many DIFFERENT pressings. Thus, this new thread that has a more open character, less specific than the other, more targeted thread.)

    I've got some COME FLY WITH ME samples posted, with more to follow in the next day or so. This is just a start.

    I've already had offers for most of the more common pressings/issues on this title. The ones I'm still looking for are:

    1. The new 2009 Capitol pressing.
    2. The 2000 or 2001 "Millennium Series" British mono pressing.
    3. The British "Music for Pleasure" pressing that came out in, I think, about 1985, under a different title which slips my mind at present. (I used to have this one. Should have kept it, apparently!)
    4. The 1984 Dell LP (not CD).

    If you've got one of those and can send me a clip from the title track, that would be appreciated.

    In the meanwhile, please visit here to check out the first 5 samples.

    Matt

    PS - I've also made a small addendum to the WEE SMALL HOURS "winners page."
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
    DmitriKaramazov likes this.
  2. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
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    That's terrific! Thanks for your effort in this endeavor.

    Based on the clips, for stereo I rather like that MFSL.

    Sallenos 9 o'clock stereo copy has the same wimpy, boxy sound as mine.
    The MFSL somehow restores it to something closer to that excellent mono grey label, as far as full range presentation goes.

    Not to bash Larry Walsh, but along side the other versions his remix has kind of a wonky balance.
     
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Agreed, and to my ears, the 9 o'clock stereo sample sounds out of phase. The MFSL sheds that problem, and the Walsh mix seems to pick it up again, but to a lesser degree (almost negligible).

    Matt
     
  4. salleno

    salleno Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. Cal.
    I went through about 8 pressings, 3 of them in mint condition, and came to the same conclusion. As much as I love this album, it's a flawed presentation of the three track work parts. The MFSL is better than the 9 o'clock rainbow.
     
  5. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    They didn't mess with echo on the mono versions of any albums also available in stereo. COME FLY WITH ME in mono has lots of echo to begin with - if they added more afterwards, it'd sound like the "Dexter" version of "I Feel Fine".
     
    McLover likes this.
  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    I like Larry's mix better overall than the original stereo mix, but it has some issues. To my ears when playing his mix, most songs need the vocal balance brought out some, to varying degrees. I can't speak for Larry, but maybe he was trying to match the vocal/music balances heard in the mono mix? That's an understandable goal, but if that's what was done, it usually doesn't seem to work well in stereo, at least based on these mixes. It also needs a little taken out at 10k to my ears.
     
  7. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The clip posted, which is from the Capitol Years box, is not the same mix as on on the Walsh 'Fly' CD is it?

    Because for fun today, I merged the song 'Come Fly With Me' off the 9' o'clock stereo album with the one off of the Walsh CD and the mix seems to remain consistent. Moreso than on that clip.
     
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    I don't think so. I believe Larry did new remixes for the 3-CD The Capitol Years set. Matt now has samples from the Walsh single CD, as well as numerous other different CD sources, so he should be posting a comparison soon.
     
  9. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Many new stereo mixes on that set, but some are ones Larry previously mixed. The COME FLY tracks on there recycled the '87 mixes. The COME DANCE WITH ME! tracks in there, for instance, have the first two songs from the '87, and the last two as then new (and superior) mixes.
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    More COME FLY WITH ME samples have been posted for comparison. Click here.

    Matt

    PS - For this title, still looking for samples from:

    Grey Label original mono (would like more than one to compare)
    1984 "Alan Dell" series British stereo LP
    2000 Millennium Issue (British EMI LP, mono)
    2009 Capitol 180g LP

    PPS - MMM nailed it! There is no doubt that the Dell CD and Dell LP for Wee Small Hours use completely different tapes. There's a new sample (thanks to Greg1954) on that page.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  11. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Matt are you NOT going to use a sample from the Uk 21 CD set, apologies if I've missed this but thought I should ask.
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Graham, Matt posted a sample of "Come Fly With Me" from the 1998 UK box (here), but he incorrectly identified it as from the "16-disc set, produced by Allan Dell." That should be "21-disc set."

    It's incorrect to say it was produced by Alan Dell. (One "L" in Alan.) Dell died in 1995. His name is on the liner notes, which originated in the set of 20 LPs that he produced in the 1980s, but it's becoming increasingly clear that the CD box set may have little relationship to those British digital LPs, including the sound sources.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    One more small correction to Matt's notes: The Japanese Toshiba/EMI release, Around the World, was dated (P) 1991 (not 1995). This was actually put out first by Club ANA (All Nippon Airways) as a promo item, then later sold to the public. I can't tell if there's a credit to Walsh, as the notes are almost completely in Japanese.

    I also sent Matt the 1996 "Come Fly With Me" track from the 1996 CD, Frank Sinatra Sings The Select Sammy Cahn, produced by Brad Benedict. Like the 1995 Sinatra 80th: All The Best version (produced by Wayne Watkins and mastered by Norberg), I presume it's the Walsh remix (or a variation thereof) although no mastering credit is given.
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Thanks for catching the errors; I have made the appropriate changes.

    Matt
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I went back and checked my editing notes, and sure enough, I had mis-identified one track. I'm glad you are thorough, Bob. The corrections are now posted.

    Matt
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I've got a couple more LP clips posted on the bottom of page 2 of this site. Let me know your thoughts on this.

    Matt
     
  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I think the COME FLY WITH ME pages are done. I've cast my vote(s), and am curious to hear your opinions.

    4 pages, lots of samples, starting here.

    Matt
     
  18. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    The 'Catch Me If You Can' CD sample? Missing, now?
     
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Mmm....it's on my computer. :sigh: Here.


    ...unless I'm totally missing something. (Wouldn't be a first.)

    Matt
     
  20. floweringtoilet

    floweringtoilet Forum Resident

    Matt, thanks again for doing this. One question. Do we know that the mono mix on the 2009 LP and 12:00 Rainbow are the same as what is on the original grey label Capitols? Or was this another case where reverb was added to the mono mix later? The 2009 reissue sounds at least as good as the 12:00 Rainbow, IMO.

    I agree the MoFi sounds best, there is a smoothness to the sound that is very appealing. But the Walsh CD is also excellent and perhaps has a bit more "zing" to it that is appropriate to May's charts.
     
  21. Greg1954

    Greg1954 New Member

    Location:
    .
    On the mono clips taken from the 'Catch Me' CD / 12' o' clock mono LP / and 2009 Capitol. Doesn't Sinatra's vocal sound kind of 'slammed?. Or peaked out?

    I don't hear that same effect on any of the stereo's
     
  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I prefer the sound of the 2009, but part of the difference in sound may just be different playback equipment, as they are fairly close.

    I thought there were two mono mix tapes (original and reverb-added), but MMM recently PM'd me and pointed out that there was no second version of this title, so my assumption would be that the gray labels would be (more or less) identical to the rainbows. Maybe MMM can expound.

    Matt
     
  23. serge

    serge Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    This is like audio forensics here.. very interesting keeping up with this thread!
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    There's some funny stuff on this title, that's for sure. Perhaps none of the stereo clips from the site had distortion in the vocal, but it's there in spots throughout the album, so much so, that my comments on page one of the sample pages say, "Furthermore, to my ears, there is some mild overmodulation (levels set too high) on the vocal channel throughout the album. Everything (vocals and instruments) seems to be recorded “too hot” in places, and it’s a shame..." When I typed that, I was thinking of the stereo album, although that's not clear in my wording.

    Matt
     
  25. salleno

    salleno Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. Cal.
    Awesome recommendation on Fancy Meeting You Here! That's one of my all time favorite albums!
     

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