Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Nov 11, 2009.
Hey, Steve, you weren't serious, were you?
That session, with the first two songs, and the last three, has distortion on the three tracks that one may try to disguise or fix. The sound on Larry's disc is much more true to the actual tapes. However, "Around the World" on there is narrowed significantly, so that might affect your perception of all this. The rest is wide stereo.
I've wondered what a de-crackle program, if used judiciously, could do for the distortion problems on the stereo versions of this album...
I just quickly listened to "Around the World" off the Norberg disc and an D2 cut original stereo U.S. LP. At first, I wondered if the Norberg was the old mix because I didn't recall that song being as dry as it is on there, but it seems to be. I didn't A/B the two versions though - I just played one after the other. While the LP is nothing really special, the mastering on the Norberg is so dull and smothered sounding. Not good...
I'm sure if an engineer went back to the three tracks something could be done to remove the distortion on the right stereo track, I agree that Larry's disc sounds good and true to the original but for some strange reason the distortion is more apparent on the five tracks affected by this problem and on the Norberg disc you are not immediately aware of a distortion problem, true his disc is dull which might be disguising the problems, I notice that 'Around The World' is not a true stereo on either disc and that is the track with the worst distortion so it indicates that some work has been done to disguise the problem.
This thread has just saved me a few dollars and great disappointment. I have the later remaster of Come Fly With Me that sounds terrible, I assume due to heavy processing, and I've been meaning to replace it with the 1987 original CD, now I won't bother!!!!!!
P.S. Is a mono CD available?
Unfortunately, no. Just one track, "Come Fly with Me," is available on CD in mono: It's on the soundtrack to the film Catch Me If You Can.
Some quotes about this from my old Sinatra comparison pages, all strictly IMO, of course:
How about mono?
The mono LP mix, now easily obtainable commercially for the first time in decades, is a perfectly viable and undeniably interesting alternative. The balances are different, and many instruments that are virtually impossible to hear on the stereo mixes jump right out on the mono, which was a “multi-mic” recording, unlike the stereo, which was probably done with a total of 3 microphones, one of which was on Mr. Sinatra. You also get an “effect” that is not on any of the stereo mixes: At the end of Moonlight in Vermont, Mr. Sinatra fades away into a sea of reverb. It’s kind of cool!
If you really listen to "Brazil" on the mono LP you are in for a real treat! The marimba (or vibes) shine thru the entire song much clearer (to MY ears) than on the stereo mix. I just love this cut.
That's because there is a microphone on the vibes on the mono recording, Paul. Missing on the stereo version.
Cool, Steve...thanks. That song really can make me dance around the room when listening to it! (Quite a visual, I'm sure)
Also, the monaural mix of "Moonlight In Vermont" is available on the 2009 Capitol CD Classic Sinatra II.
They all sound bad in stereo but the mono is only available on vinyl at the moment.
What are the other 4 tracks with distortion?
I know "Around The World" is one of them.
Date: October 8, 1957
Location: Los Angeles
Frank Sinatra (ldr), Billy May (con, a), Frank Sinatra (v)
a. E17696 Blue Hawaii (Leo Robin, Ralph Rainger)
b. E17697-6 Come Fly With Me (Sammy Cahn, Jimmy Van Heusen)
c. E17698 Around The World (Harold Adamson, Victor Young)
d. E17699 It's Nice To Go Trav'ling (Sammy Cahn, Jimmy Van Heusen)
e. E17700 Brazil (Ary Barroso, Bob Russell)
(From this site.)
Oh yeah..."Blue Hawaii" has a real "squealer" in it!
For those of you who are oldies around here, you may recall that I have a theory as to the fate of that bad-tube U47 microphone, on this page:
http://web.mac.com/mlutthans/iWeb/Site 22/Louis & Oscar 4.html
and the one that follows.
It's a nice theory but the late John Kraus told me that the microphone preamp in their makeshift console was malfunctioning, not the microphone itself.
I like your idea of the mic just quitting altogether but unless John was misremembering.....
By the way, I was also told that the three-track machine was monitored with headphones. As we know from the machine, it has headphone jacks for all of the three channels but unless they made a three prong headphone device, only one of the channels could be monitored at a time. What a truly dreadful system. Can't believe that for the most part it came out so well....
I recently purchased an original grey label copy in amazing condition. It looks and sounds like it just came out the record store. Here are the numbers:
W1 - 920 N1 " #3
W2 - 920 D5 " #2
I purchased three other titles all in the same condition.
Well, either way, it's a fun little theory, and the timing fits.
By the way, remember Cinerama??? The Audio Control Engineer who would sit in the audience and control the 7-channel stereo sound had a headphone jack on his control panel, but it was mono and monitored one channel at a time, similar to the old headphone jack on the Capitol board, apparently. Note the headphone jack on the upper left, with the 8-position selector immediately below.
Wow....purdy! Odd that side one is made from the NYC dupe tape, and side two from the master in LA. (Probably not that unusual, but interesting notwithstanding, IMO.)
WOW! Nice find. What are the other titles you were so lucky with?
By the way, Matt, and all you Sinatra discographers. I have this info from the late Pete Welding regarding the stereo COME FLY WITH ME. I'll type it out here and maybe it will be some use to you. He got me this info when DCC had a hope of doing a Gold CD of this title. This is an exact copy of what he sent me:
Work Order: Come Fly With Me THREE TRACK ASSEMBLY "A" TAKES, January 2, 1958.
Distortion on channel 3 on five tracks as noted with an *.
17697 COME FLY WITH ME TAKE SIX*
17698 AROUND THE WORLD TAKE THREE*
17650 MOONLIGHT IN VERMONT TAKE ELEVEN
17641 ON THE ISLE OF CAPRI TAKE EIGHT
17647 AUTUMN IN NEW YORK TAKE THREE
17639 ON THE ROAD TO MANDALAY TAKE FOUR CONSOLE FADE
17640 LET'S GET AWAY FROM IT ALL TAKE SEVEN
17649 APRIL IN PARIS TAKE TWO
17648 LONDON AT NIGHT TAKE FOUR
17700 BRAZIL TAKE FIVE*
17696 BLUE HAWAII TAKE NINE*
17699 IT'S NICE TO GO TRAVELING TAKE ELEVEN*
Some of that is new info to me -- thanks! (Some takes are listed here, but not all.)
By the way, there is the odd thing with the "missing snap" on some versions of the title tune, a mystery that I still have not been able to figure out. (See here, about a third of the way down the page, by Cookie Monster's picture -- it's a busy page so give it time to load, eh?)
Steve (or anybody who might know) -- I'm a little surprised that a 3-track assembly would have been made that early on (Jan. of '58). Was that just "standard operating procedure" for all projects at that time? Thought being: The stereo LP was still several months off. Were they, perhaps, considering a 2-track tape release? Or is this SOP? (Actually, the stereo release on this particular album did not occur until 1961.)
They always did it that quickly. Had nothing to do with an LP release date of a stereo version. Had to do with getting the project spliced together as an LP work part and then shelving it until needed. I'm sure the reason they didn't release it as a consumer OPEN REEL in 1958 is the distortion. Bet someone got demoted for that one.
Separate names with a comma.