Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Point of No Return" - rec. 1961*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by paulmock, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Wonderful, Matt! Some of my favorite tracks of the whole Sinatra-Capitol oeuvre are on PONR.

    I think that "When the World was Young," "I'll Remember April," and "There Will Never Be...." are as good as anything else he recorded in this era.

    Bob, what had Stordahl been doing in the intervening 8 years? For whom/what was he writing charts?

    I think that if FS had stayed with Stordahl during the fifties, he would not be considered the "artist" that he is today. He would have enjoyed a commercial comeback on the basis of "Eternity," and he would have had hit albums/singles. But its his collaborations with Riddle that raise his work at Capitol to the level of high art, and that propel FS as a singer to a level beyond his otherwise magnificent peers like, Bing, Tony, Nat, Mel, Ella, Peggy and Peggy.
     
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  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    (I'm not Bob, but...) Stordahl had done some of his own "exotica"-style albums (including a series of "Strings of Stordahl" LPs on Capitol), and also (in NYC) worked for Eddie Fisher, who was quite popular in the mid-50s. Note Artie's "Liz & Eddie split" t-shirt:
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. DLant

    DLant The Upstate Gort Staff

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    I haven't listened to this album in a very long time. Now, I'm gonna have to dust it off and play it!
     
  4. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Is the monaural version simply a folddown or a unique mix?
     
  5. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Not that it has anything to do with POINT OF NO RETURN, but I just watched Axel conducting on a 1951 episode of Frank's TV show (the one with Dagmar). Her line, "Mr. Strudel, would you vamp me please?", was one of the more memorable parts of that program.

    From Wikipedia, after he split with Sinatra in 1953...
    And, of course, there was the work he did for Simon and Garfunkel! :D
     
  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I think this was discussed once before, and the consensus was: folddown. Perhaps Matt will post some samples for further analysis?
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    NOT FOLD.
     
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  8. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I just found the earlier discussion (here). These were a few of the comments:

     
  9. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Matt, maybe pick one song from each side, instead of two from side 2? I can't remember if "I'll Be Seeing You" on THE CAPITOL YEARS is the same as on the '87 CD. If it is, "As Time Goes By" (that you've already chosen) makes sense due to the ROMANCE compilation variant.
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff



    Old Coder sent along some clips from the 1998 UK CD (from the British EMI boxed set), and just for yuks, I compared a couple of them with the 1984 UK LP (which I bought new in 1984 -- that's 29 years ago, y'all, which means I am OLD), and I was struck by how dark and heavy the UK CD clips are compared to the UK 1984 LP. I'm not saying it's better or worse (dark and heavy may serve this album well, I suppose, and I have spent enough time with the clips to reach any "value" conclusions), but a very different sound compared to its UK counterpart.

    Having enjoyed the Dell LP for nearly 30 years (along with other pressings that I also like), I pretty-well agree with feinstei9415's post, but I'm very eager to put other versions through the sausage maker and see what comes out.

    Just sayin'! The two Dells appear to be different experiences altogether.
     
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  11. Dugan

    Dugan Senior Member

    Location:
    Midway,Pa
    Against union rules, I believe.
     
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  12. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I've only just noticed this thread and its good to see Matt reviewing this wonderful album, I'm looking forward to Matt's take on the different releases, my go to for this is the 1984 Alan Dell LP which I think sounds very nice indeed.
     
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  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    September 11–12, 1961. Two consecutive nights; six songs each night. Frank Sinatra's final recording sessions at the Capitol Tower.

    Discussion of this album always sends me back to Robin Douglas-Home's 1962 biography, Sinatra. The young British author was present, invited by Sinatra. He devotes a chapter to the first session, which is described in beautiful detail. These are photos taken that night:

    Sinatra-1.jpg Sinatra-2.jpg Sinatra-3.jpg Sinatra-4.jpg
     
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  14. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    More session photos by Robin Douglas-Home:

    Sinatra-5.jpg Sinatra-6.jpg Sinatra-7.jpg Sinatra-8.jpg
     
  15. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    fabulous photos, bob! thanks.
     
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  16. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    i'd love to know the color of that pocket square.....
     
  17. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    According to Douglas-Home: "He wore a well-cut dark grey suit; a dark-grey felt hat crowned him jauntily; a red and yellow silk handkerchief peeked perkily from his breast-pocket; the black bows on his patent leather pumps winked from under the knife-edge creases."
     
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  18. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I had posted this once before somewhere on the forum. Someone put up a color picture from the session, and I did some adjustment on it:

    [​IMG]


    Note the use of a U67 mic on Frank for this album...
     
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  19. feinstei9415

    feinstei9415 Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Bend, IN
    Any anecdotes on how Sinatra treated Stordahl at these sessions? Was he rude to Stordahl? Did he show any affection towards him?
     
  20. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Nice work Bob and Martin! Thanks. The color version of that photo was tucked somewhere back in my subconscious.

    Speaking of the U67 and the Tower: how long would it be before FS would once again release an album as well-recorded as this one? Moonlight? My Way? Watertown? Blue Eyes?
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Dear God, he looks unhappy in those shots.
     
  22. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Yes that was my thought too Steve, he really looks as though he's only there under duress.
     
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  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Painful.
     
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  24. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Martin's photo, and another from the same session, with additional color correction to match Douglas-Home's description of the grey suit and hat:

    Sinatra-color-1.jpg Sinatra-color-2.jpg
     
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  25. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    That's in the ear of the beholder. As a whole of United-Western sessions, I generally like the sound of the recordings Lowell Frank did (even with that controversial to some vocal mic). 'OL BLUE EYES IS BACK does sound really good, but that was done at Goldwyn by Ed Greene IIRC. I was playing that last week...
     
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