Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality: "Come Swing with Me" (1961)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Dec 8, 2010.

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  1. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Matt, neither of the new clips - the D3 or the reel version - sound that good to me. Of all the clips, the only copy that seems close to being right is the H14 cut from the abridged reissue. It's not *great*, but it's not bad either, and is pretty well balanced.
     
    MMM, Feb 4, 2013
    #76
  2. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    "Criss-Cross...."
     
    rangerjohn, Feb 4, 2013
    #77
  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    I need to give a public "shout out" to our friend MMM.

    Back in December of 2010, I posted this about the odd reverb sound on "Yes, Indeed" --

    Check out MMM's post from clear back in April of 2002:


    Here I thought I had found this little audio nugget, but actually, it was golden-eared Martin who spotted it way before I did, as is, I'm confident, often the case!
    By the way, that post by Martin is from this excellent thread: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/sinatra-capitol-20-24-bit-masters.14835/page-3#post-241303
    which remains quality reading over a decade later. Thanks, Martin! :)
    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Feb 8, 2013
    #78
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  4. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Matt, if my ears were too golden, they'd be full of wax. Thanks though...

    Man, that thread... It's been a long time already. Some of the info is not correct, but I tried to make it as great as I could at the time. Some of it was a learning process along the way, which we're still doing. To think that the discs that made me begin it are still the standard ones in print after all this while. I think part of what really pushed me was that "Golden Ear" award they won from The Absolute Sound back then. There's gold in them there ears alright...waaait a minute now!


    That 'sound' on "You'll shout...", etc. just sticks out to me like a sore thumb. It seems out of character for what I'd expect to hear from a Capitol recording (and even mix) made back then.
     
    MMM, Feb 8, 2013
    #79
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Agreed on all fronts, and it's hard to believe that those discs won any award that didn't have the word "sow" in the title.

    If somebody would like to hear that oddball reverb thing, they can strap on the headphones and listen to this clip, which starts with a remix that does NOT have the problem, then transitions to the original mix, which does have the problem. Listen for the reverb tail on the word "shout:" https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7qgH1HDldamLUxhWmRSaHNhcms/edit?usp=sharing
     
    MLutthans, Feb 8, 2013
    #80
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  6. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I was trying to find a picture of Les Nessman with the coveted Silver Sow award on his desk. I doubt he would have ever parted with his.
     
    MMM, Feb 8, 2013
    #81
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    If you ever get a chance to transfer a clip from that D2 cut, please send it along!

    Well, I've said many times something along the lines of "The MFSL is about 10% too bright, but the other pressings are about 20% too dull, so I'm going with the MFSL," and I still agree with myself on that one. I know that hearing and preference are funny things! Personally, all the LPs except for two have a dullness to the top end (to my ears) that the MFSL and the Dell don't have, and the MFSL is the better of those two, IMO, but probably not by much! (I don't own the Dell and am just going off the clip and some other tidbits I've heard.) I've got a digital transfer that I made of the MFSL a couple of years back that I play all the time, and I just absolutely love it (Luh-huuuuvvve it!) -- but I turn the treble down just a smidge when I play it. :) It's maybe in my top 5 LP pressings by anybody anywhere ever, and is probably the most-played LP in my MFSL silver box -- even though it is admittedly too bright! I'm serious. I just turn the treble down a SMIDGE, and it's right in that groove, at least for me!

    But hey, to each his own, no? That's why I like to post samples so people can listen and share THEIR likes and dislikes.

    Boy, what a crazy few days those were, huh? Those rejected sessions were also Sinatra's first recordings on 4-track tape, and the quality is quite nice, based on the one released track. Thanks for the reminder.

    Matt
     
    MLutthans, Feb 12, 2013
    #82
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    MLutthans, Apr 17, 2013
    #83
  9. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Wonderful, Matt! Great to see you back at it. Your work on this album, in particular, is astounding.
     
    rangerjohn, Apr 17, 2013
    #84
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  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    That sounds a little like "drunky Dean" is on there with Frank. :)
     
    MMM, Apr 17, 2013
    #85
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  11. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Oh my! Oh my! I finally got my hands on a MFSL copy of this album and I completely agree that it is the (so far) definitive version. I was expecting it to be more bright than it is after all the chatter here. Yes, it is brighter than any other copy I own. But, as Matt says somewhere in his Epistles, it is an "in your face" brass album that requires "bite". And this one bites...in a nice way. And yessirrreee, Matt...the vibes sound better here than anywhere else!
     
    paulmock, Jan 14, 2014
    #86
  12. rxcory

    rxcory proud jazz band/marching band parent

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    The link to the CD 'winner' page is going to the Come Fly With Me winners page. Which of the three lackluster choices will get the nod, if any?
     
    rxcory, Jun 28, 2014
    #87
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Bob F, Jun 28, 2014
    #88
    Bob Belvedere and rxcory like this.
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Knowing the litigation that occurred as a result of the release history of Come Swing with Me and Swing Along with Me, its kind of funny to see that has been added on to the EU Waxtime LP of Come Swing with Me at the end of side B:
    SinatraComeSwingWaxtimeSHTV.jpg
    SinatraCOMESWINGWITHMECover2SHTV.jpg
    Here are the "original liner notes" that appear on the rear cover (pardon the angle at which I took the shot):
    COMESWINGWITHME3-DellOriginal.jpg
    These notes also appear on the back cover:
    COMESWINGWITHMESinatra4SHTV.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
    MLutthans, Oct 23, 2014
    #89
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  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    [Regarding the new 2015 HD download:]

    Is it me, or are the COME SWING clips right-heavy?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
    MLutthans, Feb 9, 2015
    #90
  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Didn't play them yet...
     
    MMM, Feb 9, 2015
    #91
  17. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Don't hear the COME SWING! clips being off-balance, though something is pulling my ear there. Maybe just something in the tone, combined with the rhythm being there?
     
    MMM, Feb 10, 2015
    #92
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    At first blush, the vocal sounds off-center, but maybe not.
     
    MLutthans, Feb 10, 2015
    #93
  19. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    just went through these a few times. many of the tracks seem to have more depth in the right channel than in the left, it's especially noticeable if I do one headphone at a time. and you may be right that the vocals are frequently pushed slightly to the right at times. it's definitely not the case with all the songs, though, but around 50% of them.
     
    motionoftheocean, Feb 10, 2015
    #94
  20. motionoftheocean

    motionoftheocean Senior Member

    Location:
    Circus Maximus
    something wonky may be going on with the playback from highresaudio.com because I'm now listening to the clips up on PSM for Come Swing With Me! and I don't hear nearly as pronounced a stereo separation there.
     
    motionoftheocean, Feb 10, 2015
    #95
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Paper Doll is total ****. They've managed to move the piano from the right channel to the center through some miracle of audio blandishment.
     
    MLutthans, Feb 10, 2015
    #96
  22. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I hear the piano hard right, Matt.

    However, I am noticing more of a slight right heavy balance though now (I was laying down with headphone earlier, and didn't notice it then)...
     
    MMM, Feb 10, 2015
    #97
  23. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Matt, I'm not hearing any other piano. I hear some bass overtone leakage going towards the center that carries a sort of piano like rhythm, but I'm not hearing any piano before the "noodling"...
     
    MMM, Feb 10, 2015
    #98
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Clip in this order:

    •Piano centered from HD
    •Piano right MFSL LP
    •"" HD
    •"" LP
    •""HD
    •""LP
    •""HD
    •""LP
    •Longer clip, HD
    •Longer clip, LP
    •Longer clip, HD
    •Longer clip, LP

    https://app.box.com/s/35jll2cd39je8q4dee79wqwfdf4n3bvn
     
    MLutthans, Feb 10, 2015
    #99
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Left channel ONLY, HD/LP/HD/LP/HD/LP

    The piano (essentially) disappears on the LP version (as it should, since it's properly positioned as recorded in the RIGHT channel), while it's at full volume in the HD version, due to some trickery-pokery going on. It does not belong where it resides in the HD version.

    https://app.box.com/s/sw5jj6getz4rmaszehfiqckip8773hp2
     
    MLutthans, Feb 10, 2015
    #100
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