Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality, etc.: "Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely" (1958)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Catching up a bit:

    A new mono clip, from a D6#2 LP, thanks to @Arkoffs - here.
    Two new clips from abridged, 10-song stereo LPs: an N3 and a D7#2, both from Arkoffs - both here.
    Two new clips from unabridged, 12-song stereo LPs: The 1972 Australian World Record Club LP, thanks to @AxeD , and the 2013 DOL EU LP (cut to vinyl from the 1987 Walsh remixed CD), with thanks to @bozburn - both here.
     
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  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Moving next to CDs.... I've got the "official releases" covered, but does anybody have any of the unlicensed EU CD releases? Black Coffee Records? (Same as In-Akustic Music? 7 Bonus tracks?) Blue Moon Records? (Same as Hart Music? "Monique" as the sole bonus track?)
     
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  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Matt, I have the "Masterworks" 9-CD set (7 bonus tracks), and the "Big 12"12-CD set (7 different bonus tracks). They're garbage, but I'll be happy to forward samples for your eval. Send me a PM.

    P.S. See this thread: —> Frank Sinatra new (EU/unlicensed) 16 album CD boxed set The Capitol Years 1953-62*
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
  4. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    The disc in the Masterworks 9-CD box set (2013) is almost certainly the same as the Black Coffee Records single CD (2014), as they share the same seven (mostly unrelated) bonus tracks. Furthermore, the EAN (barcode) registrations show that they were both assigned in Spain. The earlier Blue Moon Records "Collectors Edition" CD (2010), with single bonus track "Monique," also carries a Spanish barcode.

    The disc in the recent "Big 12" 12-CD box set (2014) contains a completely different set of seven oddball bonus tracks, and its barcode is not as readily identifiable. But I believe the twelve primary album tracks are basically the same masterings—particularly the title tracks, which I have compared at the waveform level. (I've sent both box set title tracks to Matt for his independent analysis.)

    My guess is that the same unlicensed digital "remasterings" have been recycled repeatedly in the EU by the grey-market profiteers for a number of years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

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  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
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  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Thanks, Bob. I updated the page.
     
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  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Last edited: May 2, 2016
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  9. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Great work Matt! (as usual)

    I was under the impression that the Time Life set was a two LP affair, not three. Were there two releases under the same title?
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Ah....sorry about that. Now fixed.
     
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  11. marmil

    marmil It's such a long story...

    Does this LP exist on the gray label?
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
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  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Continuing with the source/mix quirks, a look at stereo quirks within the title track can be found down the page here:
    Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely - 1958 Notes on Source Quality »

    (For those whose memory man need a little nudge: Back in 1958, to boost piano levels during the piano-centric instrumental introduction, a 23-second edit piece was created that ran the stereo and mono mixes in sync. The piano is very prominent in the multi-miked mono recording, and weak on the 3-track stereo recording, so sync-ing them was a way to boost piano levels somewhat, and it worked very well, but it has never been re-created in the stereo remixes that started cropping up in 1987.)
     
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  14. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    Would we find that boost on the unique Reel to Reel Stereo mix as well?
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Yes, the reels just re-used the LP mix.
     
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  16. aza14782

    aza14782 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal
    Pretty amazing the things they did while recording these... It's fun to show someone, maybe not this particular album as it's a little heavy for a casual listen, but a lot of these 195x recordings played back on a nice system and they're in awe. I guess the effect is less pronounced when I listen because I'm familiar with the material, but when you think about the fact that these are around 60 years old it's amazing to hear they sound nice as ever. What was it about this era of recording that made them so life like? We could go on for days about analog vs. digital but I know it's more than that. The engineers? The miking? I don't know, all I know is that they sound incredible.
     
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  17. Simon A

    Simon A Arrr!

    All of these and other factors as well. The world was a different place then with a different way of doing things.
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Talented engineers, good studios, great microphones (and not a lot of them), amazing musicianship, a relative paucity of ancillary equipment -- lots of factors. One thing that always blows me away is that, for a typical session at Capitol, anyway, the players would come in, get handed some music that they'd never seen before, and three hours later, four songs would be "in the can," and in the live-to-mono era (through about 1958 at Capitol), not only would they be "in the can," but they would be literally RELEASE READY -- totally mixed, ready to be spliced into a production reel for lacquer cutting. (Occasionally a tape splice or two would have to be performed, but that's about it.)

    ---------------------------------------------------

    On the sound comparison front, I've got a little "bonus coverage" now posted. Since there have only ever been, to my knowledge, five official stereo LP masterings and two official stereo CD masterings (both remixes) of "It's a Lonesome Old Town," I went ahead and bit the bullet and posted clips from every single one of them, at the bottom of the page here: Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely - 1958 Full-length, Unabridged Stereo Releases »

    To my ears, the LP versions are all within shooting distance of one another, with the exception of the UK "One for My Baby" LP, which is on the bright/thin side. The Australian LP (which was, as far as I can tell, the worldwide first-ever stereo release of this song) and the 1983 MFSL LPs are my favorites. On CD, the Walsh version is the better of the two options. (I finally tracked down a copy of that Australian LP, so I no longer have to pester @AxeD for snippets!)

    I LOVE this performance, by the way! It's pensive to the point of near-creepiness, and I mean that as a compliment.

    Side note: while it has remained, to my knowledge, "officially" undocumented, "It's a Lonesome Old Town," as released, is a composite of two takes, with the trombone solo being flown in from a different take than the vocal. (I used to own an acetate of the unedited vocal-source take.)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Does anybody have "Spring is Here" in stereo on any LPs OTHER THAN "Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely," the US version of "Frank Sinatra Sings Rodgers and Hart," or the UK "One for my Baby," all of which I have?

    Anybody have "The Sinatra Touch" multi-LP set, or any other stereo LP releases (if there are any)? Can you listen and let me (us) know if the channels are reversed? (Easy way to tell: The little harp glissando right before Frank comes in should be in the RIGHT channel. If it's in the left, the channels are reversed.)

    Thanks!
     
  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Re: SPRING IS HERE

    This is one of three songs from this album for which it seems (and I emphasize that word, having never actually handled the master reels, of course) that the stereo master tape got damaged at some point in the 1970s. I've got some things posted at the bottom of the page here regarding the dropouts that plagued the 1983 MFSL stereo release on this particular song. (A look at the other songs' problems will follow.) For those who may have forgotten, on SPRING IS HERE, the sections in red below are covered in dropouts on the 1983 MFSL release:
    [​IMG]
    Earlier releases that used the original stereo mix of the song did not contain these dropouts, and later editions mysteriously had the channels reversed, but no dropouts. (??!!) Since 1987, all releases have either used the mono mix or have been remixed to stereo using the undamaged 3-track tapes.

    Here's a 45-second clip from the 1972 Australian release, with no dropouts: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1958_-_Sings_for_Only_the_Lonely_5_files/SpringClipAussie.wav

    Here's a 45-second clip from the 1983 MFSL stereo release, with lots of audible tape damage: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1958_-_Sings_for_Only_the_Lonely_5_files/SpringDropouts.wav

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
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  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Notes on problematic/defective stereo releases of "Gone with the Wind" and "One for My Baby" can now be found at the bottom of the page here: Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely - 1958 Notes on Source Quality »

    For those who don't want to go to the site, here's the associated text:

    <<These two songs, which are the final tracks on side two of the album, have identical release histories where their use on stereo "Only the Lonely" LPs is concerned. Both tracks have been included on all editions since the stereo LP’s introduction in 1958 (neither was removed when the title roster was cut from 12 to 10 songs); both started to exhibit audible tape damage (dropouts) at some point during the 1970s. Here is a summary that applies to both songs:

    Stereo LP editions that contain the original stereo mix of these songs, free of tape damage:
    •Internationally, all (?) stereo “Only the Lonely” LPs in print from 1958 through approximately 1977. After that date, things become less certain.
    •In the North America, all of the SW- , ST-, and SY-series pressings (c. 1958-1974?)
    •UK “One for My Baby” LP, circa 1973
    •SM-series pressings (c. 1974-1980? -- regular and record club versions), but only through at least the 62nd lacquer cut (“H62” scribed in the runout groove area).

    Unknown quality:
    •Cuts 63-66 are as yet undocumented. They may be fine....or not?

    Stereo LP editions that contain the original stereo mix of these songs, but with significant, audible tape damage:
    •SM-series LPs (regular and record club versions) starting with lacquer #67 (“G67” scribed in the runout groove area), possibly going back as far as #63. (63-66 are as yet undocumented.)
    •All SN-series pressings (circa 1981-1986?)
    •Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab release #1-137, 1983 (available in the boxed set only)
    •UK "Dell" release #ED 26 0139 1, 1984 (presumably cut from digital copy of USA stereo master)
    •Dutch "Dell" DMM release #1A 038 26 01391, 1984 (presumably cut from digital copy of USA stereo master)

    Additionally, the song “One for My Baby” was released in the UK in 1986, on a compilation LP entitled “The Frank Sinatra Collection,” and on a 12-inch single released in conjunction with the LP. Both contain the dropouts. When the LP was reissued on compact disc one year later, the then-new Larry Walsh remix version replaced the original mix found on the 1986 vinyl releases.>>

    GONE WITH THE WIND dropouts in red:
    [​IMG]

    ONE FOR MY BABY, dropouts in red:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
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  22. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Our national nightmare is nearly over: I think I've wrapped up all the techie "tape source" stuff on page five: Frank Sinatra Sings for Only the Lonely - 1958 Notes on Source Quality ». Just scroll down until your head starts to hurt like mine does, then go spend some time in a David Cassidy thread or something. :)

    (As always, corrections, additions, criticisms, etc., are encouraged and welcomed.)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
  23. aza14782

    aza14782 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal
    I've always wondered what caused some tapes to be more damaged than others (ie Close To You or Come Swing With Me). I think what you said about the dropouts is probably right, an honest mistake when the reels were poorly handled. I remember when I first heard my green label SN pressing I couldn't believe how the volume dropped to almost nothing for some sections of certain tracks. But what I don't get is how a couple of seconds (from One For My Baby) just disappears :shrug:. It's one of those "the more you know" moments as I've always noticed the slight increase in hiss at the end of my MFSL CD but never thought too much about it. Anyone have any ideas on what happened to the few seconds that disappeared?

    One small note, in the paragraph for liner notes of the 1990 set you made a small typo. "...on an LP project for Sinatra, who was, arguably, Sinatra’s marquee artist." I assume you wanted to write Capitol's marquee artist.
     
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  24. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Actually I consider your site the FS bible. Thanks for posting it all!!
     
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  25. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Agreed. Should be required reading.
     
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