Sound quality of West German pressing of ABKCO Stones *Hot Rocks*?

I've always heard that the West German Rolling Stones Hot Rocks CDs on the London label sound much better than the US set released on the ABKCO label. I have the West German London CDs as well as a US pressing of the ABKCO two-disc set, and the London discs are much, much better. However, I found a place locally that has a West German pressing of Hot Rocks (two CDs) on the ABKCO label. So, the artwork looks like the version available in the US for years, but the discs were made in West Germany. Has anyone heard this version before? Is it just as bad as the later US pressings? I guess what I am wondering is, were two versions of Hot Rocks pressed in West Germany back in the day -- one bad (ABKCO) and one good (London)? I was wondering if, by chance, the discs pressed in West Germany for ABKCO used the same master as those pressed for London. Anybody?

 

Let me add that I am aware that London used MFSL masters for their CDs. Is it possible that the same MFSL masters were used for the West German ABKCO discs? Probably not, but it can't hurt to ask.

 

Steve, I had never seen the West German ABKCO discs discussed, but I will do a search anyway. I know that the West German London discs are good and am just wondering if the West German ABKCO discs are better than the later US pressings.

Again, the artwork on the Hot Rocks set I found looks just like the US ABKCO version. It's two discs in a jumbo jewel case, whereas the London Hot Rocks discs were sold individually. There are no London logos anywhere on the West German ABKCO set I saw. I assume this ABKCO set was released in the US and is a first pressing.

 

stereoptic, thanks for the link. I now have it bookmarked.

 

Keith, these are identical. I have them both. Any issue in the double clamshell case contains the ABKCO US mixes.

Mine are:

US first issue: ABCKO 66672
German re-issue: ABCKO 844-475-2

The German cds were re-issued AFTER ABCKO standarized the world to the US releases.

mud-

 

mud said:

Reissue? I'm thinking the West German discs I found preceded the US 66672 discs, which I have. The discs I found were pressed in West Germany, and the catalog number is CD607. I am almost certain that CD607 appears on the spine. My US pressing has 66672 on the spine like yours, but it says "CD606/607" or something like that on the back insert.

 

Keith, reissue in the sense that they replaced the original wide stereo Hot Rocks 1 & 2 which were sold as single discs. These were replaced worldwide with the standard US mixes in 1997, I believe.

Here's an excellent website with ALL the mix info:

http://home.arcor.de/folon2/stones_cds.html

The CD606/7 is on the back cover of the US issues. I'm not sure why ABKCO did this but the US issues have different numbers on the spine as compared the the back covers.

mud-

 

mud, thanks for the link. It seems that the link you provided does not address the West German pressing of Hot Rocks on the ABKCO label. At this point, I will assume that it is the same as the later versions pressed in the US.

 

Keith, maybe joachim ritter can shed some light on this. He contributed to that page. I have a friend in Berlin that may shed some light on this. One thing is for sure: there was no West Germany in 1997. So if it, indeed, says West Germany it certainly pre-dates 1997.

mud-

 

I'm not quite sure but I think that the first ABKCO Rolling Stones CDs were pressed in West Germany. For the experts: Check Dieter Hoffmann's Whitebook (Weissbuch).

Joachim

 

mud, as I'm sure you know, Hot Rocks was released by ABKCO in 1986. I am thinking that the West German ABKCO CDs I found were made in 1986 for release in the US and would thus be first pressings. Sony had its CD pressing plant in Terre Haute, IN in 1986, but a lot of CDs for the US market were still being pressed in West Germany and Japan. Anyway, I figure the ABKCO CDs I found are old. Since the London Hot Rocks CDs were being pressed in West Germany in '86 too, I wonder if, by chance, the West German ABKCO discs sound like the London discs. If the ABKCO discs don't use the same master as the London discs, perhaps they use a better master than the US ABKCO discs. In the end, I should probably break down and buy the West German ABKCO discs and decide for myself.

 

Joachim, my thought exactly. That, of course, does not mean that the West German ABKCO discs sound any better than the later US discs.

 

Here's other London label Stones with MFSL markings:





Appearently all 17 of the London label Stones from W.Germany are mastered by MFSL but only a few in the 2nd pressings carry the markings.

Here's more info for those who want to investigate:

Information about CDs by The Rolling Stones on the London label

 

Joachim, you're correct.

Matrix #: CD 606-1/1 2896 511 01 XC pressed in W. Germany
Matrix #: 111206-39-1-6 pressed in US

mud-

 

Keith, Das Weissbuch says the mixes are the US versions. As you surmised they were only PRESSED in W. Germany.

mud-

 

Keith,

I always thought that any ABCKO CDs that had the "Digitally Remastered From Original Master Recordings" banner at the bottom of the front cover used the later mastering, like the US ABCKO CDs, and not the same mastering as the original London CDs. If this banner is on the cover of the West German CDs that you mention, I would have to think that they are not what you are looking for.




Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

 

Well, I went out and picked up the West German ABKCO discs. The song selection and track times are identical to those on my US pressings. There are small differences on the inserts. Some differences are subtle. For example, the inserts for the West German set say:

(C) 1986 abkco Records, Inc.

The US set says:

(C) 1986 abkco Music and Records, Inc.

Other subtle differences include:

* The barcode on the back insert is larger for the West German set.
* The reverse side of the front and back inserts (inlay cards) for the West German set have the catalog number printed on them.

The discs look pretty similar, though the West German discs have aluminum up to the center hole, while the US discs have a plastic ring. Both sets have a catalog number of 66672 on the spines.

Another difference I noticed is that the booklet for the US set denotes that stereo versions of "Heart of Stone", "Play With Fire", "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction", and "Get Off of My Cloud" are included. A double dagger appears after each of these songs in the list inside the US booklet. No such designation appears in the booklet included with the West German discs.

Finally, the front insert for the US set says "DIGITALLY REMASTERED FROM ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDINGS" at the bottom, and the cover of the booklet included with the US discs does not. By contrast, the front insert for the West German set does not say this, but the front cover of the booklet does.

In listening briefly to the two sets, I would say they sound the same except that the US set is louder. At first, I thought the US set sounded better because it is louder, but I think they sound the same. The four songs mentioned above are in stereo on the West German disc, even though there is no mention of stereo in the booklet.

 

Gentlemen, the Londons are the correct and best masterings. The first W. German Londons, IIRC, had no remastered banner on them. The second pressing, and still correct, has the remastered red banner in the top left hand corner. The Abkco's bear the bad mastering, some without remastered banners and some with the red banner across the bottom.

 

Dave, buddy, I believe that you have that backwards. The first pressings had the red banner in the top left hand corner. But you are right about the best masterings

Evan

 

Evan, notice the "IIRC"? It's there for a reason.

 

Yeah, I had always read that the London first pressings had the "DIGITALLY REMASTERED" banner.