Source first or speakers first?

Agreed ..Thanks to Discogs it is quite easy to eliminate the crap whether it is $25 record or a $50+ one.

 

Don't you think they can evolve into useful discussion, where a lot of shared real life experiences, both good and bad can help more people achieve a more enjoyable listening experience?

Far better than the tick box, black and white, mutual smug back slapping threads which achieve nothing whatsoever apart from boasting egos!

The answer to the "Ultimate Question to Life, the Universe, and Everything." * is 42 and not always a Technics SL-1200GR - just saying.

Happy listening!


* With apologies to anyone who hasn't read Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy series of books.

No disrespect to the Technics SL-1200GR, a very good turntable; simply not always the only option.

 

I know that’s the old trope, but I just don’t buy it. I suspect a lot of guys’ wives are not really as opposed to any of this stuff as they represent.

 

That does change things, certainly. And I’d never mean to suggest anybody should prioritize HiFi over the well-being of a child. It’s just a thing I see people express from time to time, that having children means no more stereo, and it never makes any sense to me. Your situation is much more clear to me now, though.

 

I recommend starting with your ideal control amp (preamplifier) and with the proper power amp and work from there.

Speakers change depending on the room.
Front ends go in and out of style.
A turntable and cartridge while important---are merely ONE of several front end sources and no particular emphasis deserves to be lavished upon these components.
They should just be as good as the rest of your gear so that ALL sources sing equally well.
In my book EVERYTHING starts with the preamp and amp!

So what to look for in a control preamp?
Here's my "must have" list so that I buy once and never have "upgrade-itis"---
1) Balanced ins and outs---at least two pairs of each in addition to a half dozen line ins and a couple regular single ended outs too just for good measure.
2) a BALANCE control that is INFINTELY adjustable--no ladder resistors that makie large changes please.
3) a MONO switch so old mono recordings can be properly quieted by tying the two channels together.
4) a REMOTE control so I can make changes from my chair without hopping up and down like a yo-yo.
5) Super sweet sound---wide soundstage---great harmonic inner detail---dead quiet.
6) an absolute phase switch to reverse poorly recorded offerings and get them "in-step" again.

What about a power amp?
Here again, my list of "must haves."
1) super sweet clear musical sound.
2) tons of headroom---at least four times power margin above typical listening levels. Basically nothing under two hundred watts---preferably 400 at 4 ohms and capable of running as low as 2 ohms on occasion if the speaker dips that low.

After that---go out and pick the best rated front end parts you can afford.
A great cartridge /phono pre for it/table.
A great streaming setup capable of doing Qobuz at 24/192 without hiccups.
An unbelievably "alive" sounding DAC so that EVERYTHING digital in your setup is plugged into the same gadget and thus has an equal chance of sounding "great."

What about speakers?
Eh. OK let's talk about these tricky little devils.
First of all every little thing about your room will affect your tonal balance from your speakers.
So the room and the speakers are joined at the hip.
I prefer shooting for full range from 20hZ to 20khZ as long as neighbors are not a problem with loud low bass on occasion.
Otherwise stat panels might be the ticket for controlling errant noise from intruding on your neighbors.
And I would probably be shooting to have at least 40% of the budget tied up in whatever speaker setup you go with.
Anything less than that you probably aren't getting the biggest bang for your buck as the speakers and room really ARE where the buck stops here.

There you have it friends.
Doctor Fine's system approach.
Oh and one more thing.
Set a budget in stone.
Whatever THAT budget is--let's say 5 grand.
Build the BEST five grand system in the world!
And NEVER sell it or trade up or get the bug for more gear.
Why?
Because you already have the world's best five grand system and while there IS stuff that is more expensive---there really isn't anything BETTER than your set because it works so WELL!
All more money would do is put you through the whole process all over again and meanwhile you could have been home enjoying some music instead of churning your gear.

That's right---buy RIGHT.
Buy ONCE.
Keep it FOREVER.

MY prescription for happiness for sure.
I am sure you guys have lots of other approaches but this is what turns me on and what I try to do for my customers and friends when they need my help.

As for how expensive it is to do thing my way---perhaps at five grand you will have problems getting the preamp and power amp I recommend for life---in that case go find it on the used market.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but to get serious about this hobby you probably need a good size budget.
20 grand is about what the "normal" system really deserves.
That is $2500 in 1962 money which is pretty much what everybody serious about "HiFi" spent back in the day.
What makes you think this stuff was EVER cheap?

 

I agree. You have a great philosophy if it can be adhered to. The real “magic solution” is unfortunately $$$$

 

I've found that book to be 100% accurate 60% of the time.

 

Can't do that ... I look at it as more of a journey than a one stop trip to paradise.
To me it's only by trying out different gear that I can hone in on what I really like and want to listen to, as opposed to what others (reviewers) like.
and with so much equipment available, the journey is rife with pitfalls... but I know I'm getting closer to my goal of audio nirvana ;>)

BTW - I don't think there's a right answer as to what' the best way to prioritize, it's all important when taken as a system.

 

The other 40% is the best part

 

DF,

Where am I at? Right There ($5K), where each CD of my extensive music library screams, "SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF" (what you see ISN'T what you hear)!! My Acoustical Live recordings in my library sound, "ALIVE"!

IMHO, it Can't be achieved overnight...System Synergy to achieve this lofty 2-channel goal takes years of trial and error with fine tuning Components, Speakers and Room Environments...in my case, the past 46 years!!

Transfer what I have and set it in Your Room, with Your Genre of music and Your Ears, it could easily be a total flop! IT IS a Journey and anyone expecting to just buy their way into total Audio Nirvana by throwing tons of $$$$$ at it, I wish them Good Luck!

Ted

 

Nope.
My system of planning out purchases almost does not depend on even AUDITIONING the gear.

For example---in my personal system (20K budget) I planned the speaker stack to be modular.
This required a "center main speaker" to provide the best midrange and basically not have any flaw even if it wasn't full range.

I sold high end gear and honestly couldn't recommend ANY of the expensive speakers we had for sale at the shop as they were all way too edgy sounding (high resolution crap).
One of my goals was to be able to listen to 128k low res MP3 streaming off the internet without vomiting.
So these mains would also have to be "forgiving."

As I knew nothing about such a speaker (WE didn't sell something that good!) I read magazines for a year looking for clues as to what would fit the bill.
About a million different reviewers all described the Harbeth Monitor 30 loudspeaker as being exactly what I was looking for.

So I went to a competing dealer and paid FULL RETAIL for a pair and took them home.
I NEVER EVEN HEARD THEM!
Guess what?
They were EXACTLY what my stack needed.
Perfect midrange!

So your theory that you NEED to spend many years wandering around in the wilderness sniffing at every design ever made before you can decide what you want---I say NO.
MOST of what goes into a system is pretty obvious if you can read forums and magazines.
Just lay it all out properly and then assemble the pile of stuff.
At a set budget.
And be DONE with the madness.

I fully realize many on here simply adore "testing" gear for the rest of their lives.
ME?
I'd rather FINISH a system and then go listen to music the rest of my life.
There is no WRONG answer.
But I firmly believe this stuff really is not hard to assemble properly.

If you personally aren't deliberate enough to just start at one end and work to the other perhaps you prefer to be forever in the "I'm TESTING this and will soon replace it" mode.
Thank goodness I know the cure for that sickness.
The Doctor.

PS---My two cent of course and offered for your entertainment and amusement---no guaranty or promise is implied or suggested and legal proceedings to sue me for poor advice are hereby dismissed as this is all in fun.
All opinions expressed herein are for entertainment purposes ONLY.
OK?

 

I apologize. I worked with many Autistic children over the years and totally understand where you are coming from. I would think about getting a separate listening room, in that case.

 

If you had to live with a wife like that, you would buy it.

 

Perhaps. I’m glad I chose a wife who isn’t one of these people who supposedly dislikes music.

 

No need, your comment made me laugh and hopefully you took my reply in the light-hearted manner I intended.

I have fitted a fairly decent head unit and speakers in my car and since then drive home very slowly.....

 

I got it right the second time.

 

Does your partner share your love of music?

Not in the poll, but maybe should be!

 

I do think this is a factor in the question at hand for some people. Even with a partner who shares a love of music, if a system is to be placed in a shared space like a living room, aesthetic and space considerations come into play. That’s mainly going to narrow options when it comes to speakers, I would expect, more so than source (some monstrous turntables being an exception).

 

Just changed my vote to:

A component in between the source and speakers

I feel so lonely …….not!

 

DF,

Yes, your .02 cents was very entertaining…Thanks for That!

Reality check: We Audiophile hobbyist (or any hobbyist for that matter), all start and develop our collections of “interest” in many different ways…some out of necessity (mine), some out of on-going knowledge growth and some out of financial ability/stability.

For Me, 46 years ago [and after 10 yrs of classical piano study, a BA Degree in instrumental music, with study and performances on all of the brass, woodwinds, strings, keyboard, percussion and vocals] I stepped into the world as an avid lover of music, but poor! I started teaching music in 76’ (for 10 years) but at that time, the stereo bug bit me (bad timing)! On top that, my wife and I started our family of 4 (today, 1 is a doctor, 2 engineers and 1 soon to be a doctor )! My children and family were always my Main Focus…music playback and any investment took a back seat...I simply did what I could with what little $$ were left!

Yep, my audio journey took me these past 46 years, not because I didn’t read the mags, forums or reviews (I did, but all taken with a grain of salt), but simply because of financial priorities! When possible, we attended acoustical live performances (Symphonic, Opera, Choral, Chamber, Small Ensembles and Jazz Club Concerts), but started our CD library in 82’ and have been building it ever since! I learned through long-term experience and listening (yes, some trial & error) what components worked for Me and in My environment, all on a shoe-string budget! Today, I confidently state I have “the best $5K stereo playback set-up” I’ve Ever Heard, and I have heard some really fine stereo systems! This is all due to My taste, My music, My dedicated music room and My qualified studies, exposures and experiences with Live Music…However, YMMV!!!

FWIW, I tell my story, not for amusement or entertainment, but for others who might possible be able to relate to it. If someone is in a position to take your approach, that’s great…It Is All Okay! But it’s also okay to take your time, learn for yourself while listening intently and one day along that journey, another can Also Enjoy Reaching Their Own Audio Nirvana! You are Right, there are No Wrong Answers!
Ted (no doctor, just lover of Accurate, Realistic Live Music Reproduction)

 

[QUOTE="Ted Torres Jr, post: 27412016, member: 12805 Your .02 cents was very entertaining…Thanks for That! Ted [/QUOTE]

Hey Ted.
Congrats on your accomplishments.
Your family, your stereo and your ability to keep a sense of humor.
You built your stereo over time little by little as you learned more and earned more.
Great job!

My goal in answering this "how do you build a system properly?" question was to lay it all out as if somebody just wanted answers NOW and didn't want to do it all little by little.

This forum has all kinds of viewpoints and takes on our hobby.
Mine is as a "teacher" (or a Doctor of HiFi if you will).
I used to get PAID to build systems.
All the stores closed and nobody hires me anymore.
Lucky for me I socked away enough for whooping it up in my old age.
So now I do it for free.
It's my little way of giving back to an industry that kept me going for over 50 years.

As a hobbyist myself I realize the pushback from folks that don't want to actually finish right now for various reasons (sometimes the money just isn't there!)
Believe me---I've had it all happen to me and at one point lived in an abandoned building illegally working tw0 jobs paying child support while my HiFi was just a cheap Radioshack radio and some cheap headphones (Sennheiser HD 414s if I remember correctly---it was back in 1980).

But for those that seek knowledge and want to FINISH their system and just sit back and listen to music someday---I give extra effort trying to help these people.
At the end of the day I am nuts about music and my REAL goal is to have everybody LISTENING to music---in some sense I actually hate gear.

But I learned what I learned so that the music would flow.
And the home playback industry was the most marvelous thing I ever met whilst a youngster.
It still fascinates me to this day!
Can you IMAGINE?
A million dollar recording job playing live in your own house?
It's the closest thing to being there with the musicians at the session!
What a miracle!

Anyway, Nice to hear from you.
The Doc.

 

It CAN.
Let me help.
I know all the answers.
That is why I am the Doctor.

 

DF,

Thanks, and Agree! However, I don't Imagine it anymore...they're Here Now, in My Music Room!!!

I've revealed My Miracle (all listed in my Sig below), how about the rest of Yours (know about the Harbeth M30-Very Fine Speakers )?

Ted

 

Agreed, I think it goes without saying, and getting to that point without a bunch of unsightly panels.

 

It's all in my profile including photos.
My main system runs playing classical pretty much all day and all night.
The wife demands it.
Although I love me some Cajun and 50s One Hit Wonders make me smile.
Nothing beats banging on the drums to chase away evil sprits too.
Every day is like a party at Chez Fine.