Spiritual Jazz: Let's discuss

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ServingTheMusic, May 10, 2017.

  1. Electric

    Electric The Medium is the Massage

    For me it does. The name alone ...
     
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  2. rollo5

    rollo5 Forum Reprobate

    Location:
    Altadena, CA
    Does anyone have strong opinions on what separates Spiritual Jazz from Free Jazz? The way I see it, SJ can, at times, appear in many different forms of jazz (free, modal, fusion, etc.), although there are certain artists and labels that seem to embody the overall spirit of this thing we call "spiritual" (i.e. Strata East, Black Jazz, Alice Coltrane, Pharaoh Sanders, etc.). I'm thinking specifically of artists and releases from the Cadence Jazz label. To me, there are some definite "spiritual" moments throughout the catalog, although I feel as if the main thrust of most of the music is "free." The same goes for albums by Huey "Sonny" Simmons and Julius Hemphill, and others who definitely evoke a spiritual vibe but the playing is more often than not quite "out" in a way that doesn't say "spiritual" to me.
     
  3. danasgoodstuff

    danasgoodstuff Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    "The one nice inclusion though (even though I already have it on CD too), is the very last track by Solomon Ilori "Song Of Praise To God" -- which was one of the 3 (then) previously unreleased tracks from the expanded version of Ilori's 1963 Blue Note album African High Life. Thing is, there are 3 quite long bonus tracks from a totally separate 1964 session which, frankly, are even WAY better (and more jazz-oriented) than the entire original African High Life album. Those 3 tracks are really phenomenal, and I'm tickled pink that the compiler(s) at Jazzman saw fit to include one of them on this comp." Rooster_Ties

    I totally agree with this assessment and would happily pay good money for the whole session even if the other two tracks truly are somehow 'lesser'...
     
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  4. rollo5

    rollo5 Forum Reprobate

    Location:
    Altadena, CA
    For those interested in the Strata East reissues, I recently acquired an original pressing of Stanley Cowell’s “Regeneration” and have been doing some comparisons. Of the half dozen or so Pure Pleasure SE reissues I have, this was a title I thought was among the best in terms of SQ. The reissue is very detailed and jumps out at you. The original, however, is a much more engaging listen on my system. I was surprised how much I prefer it due to being so impressed with the reissue. The depth of the soundstage is far more vast with the original, and it also doesn’t have a certain, for lack of better description, “sheen” the reissue displays. As I’ve stated before, some of these PP reissues compare quite nicely to original pressings (Shamek Farrah being one such example). However, if you really like “Regeneration,” I would urge you to seek out a first pressing.
     
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  5. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    The problem with Pure Pleasure, at least on these more obscure jazz releases, is that they are not transparent about their sources. I've asked. The London Jazz Collector has a thread about it that's disheartening. I guess my bottom line is that there's a big difference between a $40 dollar record and a $400 dollar one-- obviously, some of the original Strata-East can be gotten for less, but Glass Bead Games is now priced stratospherically --
    I did manage to find a clean playing Alice Coltrane, Ptah the El Daoud -- I know this is a "standard" spiritual jazz record but prices on these have gone up as well. It's a wonderfully accessible record, musically, and sonically as good as anything I've listened to. Interestingly, there are no legit vinyl reissues as far as I can tell, compared to Journey In Satchidananda.
     
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  6. RJPDX

    RJPDX Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    Just got turned on to her music - Golden Rule is the best jazz album I've heard in years - just mind blowing.
     
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  7. dlemaudit

    dlemaudit Forum Resident

    Location:
    France, Paris area
    Volume 12 of the Spiritual Jazz serie is out , Impulse label . Lots of classics obviously
     
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  8. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    Thought this post would fit nicely in here:

    ZENZILE FEATURING MARION BROWN | BAYSTATE | 1976 | JAPANESE FIRST STEREO PRESSING RVJ_6009 LP

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    Sensational jazz LP with lots of african influences. A very "deep" session - all tracks build up slowly before breaking out. The vocals and/or singing reminds me of Jeanne Lee on her "Conspiracy" album, but it is much more melodic on this album and this LP has almost nothing to do with free improvisation, it is modal jazz with a rather dark and melancholic mood. I love how the guitar sounds on this one.
    Just listen to the rip below I created from my original LP copy - so far "Piece of Earth" is the only track on the net I could find, so I decided to go with "Sweet Earth Flying" and "Long Distance". I "pasted" them together to make things easier. I hope it sounds good to your ears.


    SweetEarthFlying:LongDistance
     
  9. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    New records... the Coltrane is an update over my previous copy (I probably won't post more detailed pics for this one). More pictures soon...

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  10. I get off on it. Here is Sonny Greenwich's "Black Beauty", his take on "A Love Supreme"...

     
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  11. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Two of my favorites. Is the Bobby Hamilton the Superfly? The OG is crazy money. Even the Ptah isn't easy to find these days, last pressed in 1974 I think (though there is supposedly a Universal reissue coming).
     
  12. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    Hey Bill,

    the Bobby Hamilton is a first pressing - I was hesitant at first but took the plunge when it was still there after 2 months. The Ptah is also very hard to find, especially in decent condition. My impression is also that the pressing isn't the best - this is my second copy of a first pressing that looks near mint visually but suffers a bit from surface noise...ah well...
     
  13. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Man, an OG of that Bobby Hamilton is a rare bird. Enjoy it. Congrats on making that leap.
     
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  14. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I finally found an immaculate copy of Woody Shaw's Blackstone Legacy. It isn't rare, but just doesn't seem to show up that frequently. It's got a lot going on, but it never sounds congealed and when it slows up or is less instrumentally dense, it gets really interesting. There is something about this album that grabs me, though it isn't one attribute I can latch onto--is it "spiritual"? I'm not even sure I know how to describe it. It is controlled chaos mixed with some extremely musical riffs and excursions.
     
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  15. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    Hey Bill,

    congratulations on your „Blackstone Legacy“ copy. It may not be rare in terms of numbers pressed back in 1971, but as you said, copies don‘t turn up often and those that do don‘t look too good in most cases.

    I wouldn‘t call it „Spiritual Jazz“ either. I read a review once where it was described as „electrified post-bob“ and that‘s the most accurate description I can think of. Sure, it‘s also „Deep Jazz“, very dense and not overly accessible, but in my opinion the tracks could have worked as pre-fusion compositions had they been stripped of the electric piano and bass. Anyway, a great album and I have a thing for the title track.
     
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  16. Bobby Buckshot

    Bobby Buckshot Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
  17. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

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  18. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    BTW, for those who haven't heard this, it's a monster.
     
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  19. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    Two new records which fit nicely into this thread:

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  20. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    THE ENSEMBLE AL-SALAAM | THE SOJOURNER | STRATA_EAST | US FIRST STEREO PRESSING SES_7418 LP

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    A (rare) gem from the Strata-East catalogue that has yet to be reissued over 45 years after its initial release. The fact that almost all tracks feature quite prominent vocals might turn some potential listeners away, but I urge everyone with sympathy for Strata-East and all the other familiar, privately run, labels, to give this album a fair chance. Those tracks will grow on you and you will discover details, may it be a guitar or sax solo, that will get you hooked and there is no going back from there. It covers virtually everything in terms of Modal, Spiritual, Deep and Funk Jazz. And as a bonus, the recording quality is really great.

    P-Vine is supposed to release a deluxe reissue (with OBI etc.) by the end of November (I remain skeptical since this is the third time they announce it for this year and nothing has happened yet) . I don't know if master tapes exist, but I do know how the CD by P-Vine sounds and if the reissue LP is going to be cut from the same files, you'll have a great sounding LP with nice artwork.

    If I had to pick two tracks as highlights I'd say: "The Sojourner" (A3) and "Optimystical" (B3)... well and the opener "Music Is Nothing But A Prayer"...(A1)

    Listen for yourself:

     
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  21. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    That record is exceedingly valuable today- one of the real rarities in the Strata-East catalog. I really like the piano work- I do understand how the vocals can be a little off-putting at first, but I get it. It would be interesting to get your take on how the P-Vine compares to an original. My experience with the various Strata-East reissues, some of which do not purport to be "audiophile"- is that they pale in comparison to the original pressings in sonic quality even though the originals were not necessarily made at a high point in U.S. vinyl production.
     
    cds23 likes this.
  22. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    Hey Bill,

    I had my problems at first with this album and I listened half a dozen times to it before really liking it. Add another 15+ spins before my OCD kicked in and I decided I need to have an original copy.

    The P-Vine CD definitely sounds great - I've had my share of CD reissues of Spiritual Jazz that were made from a vinyl rip and sounded awful - no-noising and excessive declicking to hide the fact that no master tape was involved. In my opinion, all those digital tools make it more obvious than ever that a secondary source has been used. And I dare say that the usual surface crackle or isolated ticks and clicks will never harm the listening experience as much as noise reduction will, because ultimately that almost insignificant benefit of having "background silence" comes at the very high cost of reduced clarity and detail. Long story short, the P-Vine CD of Ensemble Al-Salaam sounds absolutely great and though it may not be sourced directly from the master (who knows if it still exists?), they must have used an unplayed original pressing because I couldn't detect any obvious digital tampering. So if the supposedly upcoming P-Vine LP reissue is made from the same files, I'd strongly recommend it.

    While we're at it, I will give two negative examples: The digital version (which most probably is bit identical to the japanese CD in circulation) of Bobby Hamiltons' "Dream Queen" sounds absolutely horrid, at least once you've heard the original. This is no exaggeration: before listening to the OG LP, I believed that "Dream Queen" was quite a sub-par recording with very, very limited top end. The LP has so much more clarity, depth and detail - it is shocking, because it means they literally "deleted" all those aspects in the digital domain. I don't mean to sound cocky, but I made a vinyl rip from my copy and it is absolutely no contest - I don't care about the few isolated clicks. The listening experience is an order of magnitude better, at least.

    Same goes for the Billy Parker's "Freedom of Speech". The CD version sounds very muffled compared to an original copy. Not as bad as the BHQ - Dream Queen, but quite significant if you compare them. It is baffling, because one would think that today's digital audio-tools would allow for much more refined and less heavy tampering. And if one insist's on removing all ticks & clicks, then those can still be removed manually, without changing the sound of the record altogether. But they denoised the entire entire file and not just the places where it could make sense.

    The vinyl quality of Strata-East is usually very good, but I've experienced some noise issues. My copy of "First Impressions" by Shamek Farrah was sealed and it does reveal a light "swoosh" sound in silent passages. Nothing to disturb too much from the music, especially since there are almost no silent passages on this one, but you will notice it... less so on the CD, which sounds as if it was taken directly from the master tapes. So I guess it can only be judged on a case by case basis.
     
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  23. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I agree about Dream Queen- the Japanese CD sounds like something happened to the needle when they dropped it. And ditto re quality of Strata-East originals- all generally good quality despite the era.
     
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  24. cds23

    cds23 Accidentally slowing the forum down with huge pics

    Location:
    Germany, Aachen
    NATHAN DAVIS | MAKATUKA | SEGUÉ | 1971 | FIRST US STEREO PRESSING LPS 1000 LP

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    As far as I am concerned, this is Nathan Davis' best album (and he's made quite a few great albums). I have nothing else important to say that hasn't already been covered by Bill Hart in his TheVinylPress review. Although he states having a preference for the excellent successor "6th Sense In The 11th House" (also Segué, 1972), I think we both agree that Davis' output was at a peak when he returned from Europe. I slightly prefer "Makatuka" (but really only ever so slightly) for the title track and "Slave March", but both albums are masterpieces in their own right.

     
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  25. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Pressed on some of the thinnest vinyl imaginable. But sounds great.
     
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