Springsteen Album-By-Album Discussion/Costume Party

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dr. Zoom, May 31, 2019.

  1. Brian_Svoboda

    Brian_Svoboda Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Steve is a symbol of the road not taken, and that is the Ur-myth of Springsteeniana. We associate him with the vein of horn-driven soul that Bruce was tapping in ‘77-78, and you didn’t hear any of that on Darkness. The River speaks for itself. We get to BITUSA, and he’s there for those legendary April and May 1982 sessions that gave us “Murder Inc.” and “A Gun in Every Home,” but he’s gone when they record “Dancing in the Dark.” Exhibit A is that alternate take of “Janey Don’t You Lose Heart,” where you discover that Steve got airbrushed out like Trotsky in a Bolshevik photo. I don’t know that Steve signed up to carry quite that much baggage. But to someone who was reading Backstreets in the ‘80s and early ‘90s, and accumulating grievances to bring to the Landau house for Festivus, that’s how it seemed.
     
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  2. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I suppose. I guess I feel that, had Bruce exclusively done what Steve wanted him to do (at least going by the role that has been assigned to him), we'd never have gotten Darkness, Nebraska, Tunnel of Love, The Ghost Of Tom Joad, or many other individual songs that I personally consider to be among his greatest. I'm not sure that that "road not taken" would have led to nearly as interesting a destination. It might have obviated the folk/Americana side of Springsteen's work, which I feel is generally his best side.
     
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  3. mike_mike

    mike_mike neurodiverse

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Steve advocated strongly for the Nebraska release in demo form
     
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  4. mike_mike

    mike_mike neurodiverse

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Great post.
     
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  5. musicaner

    musicaner Forum Resident

    lol unlikely.
     
  6. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I suppose there are some fans that feel that way, who hold Van Zant's artistic vision from the late-1970's/early 1980's in high regard and think he was an important influence on Springsteen during era, but I think what a handful of fans here are acknowledging is Van Zant's key role with The River. And when the box set documentary was produced, he was nowhere to be seen, which is really strange.
     
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  7. John Rhett Thomas

    John Rhett Thomas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Macon, GA, USA
    It's possible Steve didn't want to participate in the documentary. Or for scheduling reasons, he couldn't. For whatever reason, these things can happen.
     
  8. Jesus Jeronimo

    Jesus Jeronimo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madrid
    There is a book by Van Zandt coming out in a few months. It could be very interesting, but somehow I don't think it will discuss many of the things we're talking about here. We'll see.

    J
     
  9. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    He may be subject to an NDA from his Springsteen association, so who knows what he will reveal.
     
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  10. windfall

    windfall Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Short reflection on TTTB.

    Back in my obsessive bootleg collecting days, I would have traded high and low for River outtakes. The irony is that hardly any of the reclaimed songs are keepers to these ears. Most of them I would not choose to listen to more than once. And listening again now I realise that all the best ones had been issued on Tracks. All of those are release-worthy - Edge of the World is maybe my favourite but Ricky, Take Them, great songs.

    As others have said, it is nice to have the single LP version as an official release. I like the box, the book, even the documentary. I know Bruce has an increasing tendency to take himself too seriously (it's out of control in the Letter to You doc; I know many think it ran out of control long before). But I did find some of the detail and the vintage footage fascinating.
     
  11. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member


    The River was too much of a not-so-great thing for me in its original release. I really couldn't care less about concert videos and by this point no longer even had a working DVD player, so I never even would have watched the Tempe DVD. So I completely skipped this one upon its release. I'm totally burned out on these mammoth archival releases. Put 'em up on streaming and I'll browse through the barrel scrapings at some point.

    Which is exactly what I ultimately did -- peruse the album on Qobuz. In the end I think the collection of outtakes make for the best of the extended Springsteen sets. It's certainly less dour that The Promise. So much of the material is just slight, retro, '60s style pop-rock that it doesn't ask very much of us as listeners and it feels easier to listen to as a result of that. There's nothing among the previously unreleased material that would have made The River better. There are no hidden Springsteen classics there. But it's all pretty pleasant.

    While I think there is a great single LP hidden in the double-LP The River as originally released, which was an album that to me always somehow came of as being less than the sum of its parts, something worse, not better, for it's length and lack of focus, The Ties That Bind single album ain't it. I skipped tour in support of the box.
     
  12. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    As much as I love Steve and his influence on Bruce, the truth is that he had about a 7 year run (1975-82) as a great songwriter. He wrote about 25 good/great songs for Southside, Gary Bonds & himself, and had his hands in just about everything.

    After 1982 he kind of jumped the rails. He produced mostly mediocre to downright bad material (Sun City was good I suppose) . Since the reunion he’s been there mainly for showbiz reasons. His Soulfire album from a couple years back is fantastic, but it’s mostly re workings of his old stuff. The book should be an interesting read, NDA notwithstanding.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  13. mike_mike

    mike_mike neurodiverse

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    No doubt Steve seriously lost his mojo. Even the Soulfire weirdness smacks of a midday PBS oldies revue. But of those twenty-five songs, I'll take each of them over a Springsteen tune any time.
     
  14. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    Not sure I agree with your last sentence, but I know what you mean. I wish Steve and Bruce would collaborate on an album together. Do it with what’s left of the old Asbury Park gang with horns, strings the works. Record it in mono.

    Bruce & Steve are a bit like Lennon & McCartney in that each keeps the others worst impulses in check.
     
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  15. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    All true. Van Zandt is far from a musical genius. He’s pretty limited. But I believe he brings a significant intangible quality to the table. There’s no escaping the fact that Springsteen did his very best work when Van Zandt was standing next to him.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  16. INSW

    INSW Senior Member

    Location:
    Georgia
    Stevie Pippen
     
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  17. INSW

    INSW Senior Member

    Location:
    Georgia
    Stevie is Jerome Green to Bruce's Bo Diddley.
     
  18. RJD1954

    RJD1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    The NON release on any album release, until TTTB, of Stray Bullet remains, to me, the single most baffling decision that Bruce ever, EVER made.

    It is, to my ears, his greatest every song. And I LOVE A HEAP.

    I absolutely adore it. The atmosphere, the intro, the outro, the “echo”, the lyrics, the vocals, the instrumentation and arrangements, everything to me, simple and simply perfection. Bruce, what were you thinking????
     
  19. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    I’ve always believe The River’s strength was in its ballads, not the “60s pop-rock” that many seem to obsess about.
     
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  20. Vineshoot

    Vineshoot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seville
    I can't remember the documentary about The River, but last week I watched The Promise: The Making Of Darkness On The Edge Of Town again and they talked about the different opinions from Landau and Van Zandt about producing records. I have got the subtitles.

    In the documentary Springsteen says about Landau: "Jon is a formalist for the most part, he's kind of a pop formalist, and he is all roots and gospel and soul, but they were also well-performed, well-sung, well-played records". While he says about Van Zandt: "Steve is generally... It's my way or it sucks!. It's like: Hey, man, this is a major tragedy. Stop!. It's like: We're ****ing this whole thing up right now. (...) Steve likes things trashier and noisier, he's the garage guy". The role of mediator between the formalist and the enthusiastic rock and roll aficionado is given to Bruce: "And so I tend to like things in the middle somewhere. It was just two varying opinions. I enjoyed them both. I didn't want any one person having too much control over the direction the music was taking. So I would Yin-Yang a little bit, you know. It was just the way that I played it".

    After that, there's a praise for Landau (and nothing for Steve) considering that Sprignsteen says: "So I think Jon probably entered originally thinking we were gonna work like we worked Born To Run. And that was already something. I was into trying something else now. Throughout our work life, there's been a variety of moments where he goes, Oh. He grasps that idea and he shifts, and he finds some very constructive and helpful way to help me move on, on what I am doing, what I am trying to do, you know. It's an amazing... It's been one of his great talents. And it's probably been an enormous reason why we've been together and so productive for so long".
     
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  21. mike_mike

    mike_mike neurodiverse

    Location:
    Brooklyn

    More Strayhorn to Ellington but point taken.
     
  22. Dr. Zoom

    Dr. Zoom Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Monmouth County NJ
    Steve realized in 1982 he lost that battle. So he left. Jon took over and Bruce became a worldwide pop sensation. And Bruce’s music started losing its edge.
     
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  23. mike_mike

    mike_mike neurodiverse

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    The "ballads with balls" premise was derived from "Play With Fire", "Heart of Stone", and other early Stones records Steven brought to the production table.
     
  24. Vineshoot

    Vineshoot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seville
    Have you heard "Summer of Sorcery" released by Van Zandt in 2019? I think is a pretty enjoyable album (if you play it at low volume).
     
  25. mike_mike

    mike_mike neurodiverse

    Location:
    Brooklyn
    I played it backwards and it was even better.

    :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
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