Star Trek (TOS): Episode By Episode Thread

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Luke The Drifter, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. Michelle66

    Michelle66 Forum Resident

    If the fires were long ago, then CBS Digital messed up with the new special editions.

    You can see fires burning on the planet from space.
     
  2. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    I watched ST:TNG, "The Measure of a Man" the other night. THIS is how you deal with racism and human rights in Star Trek. While the viewer is focused on the aspect of, "Is this android a person with rights?", underneath that is commentary on racism and slavery in our reality. It is executed brilliantly. The way the antagonist refers to Data as "it". The way Picard talks to Guinan (who is not even from earth), played by an actress who is African-American. The episode is thought-provoking, and stands in stark contrast to "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield".
     
  3. peteham

    peteham Senior Member

    Location:
    Simcoe County
    Different time period with different constraints. I prefer 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield' because cities were burning at the time.
     
  4. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Given the debate and my poor recollection, I went back and watched the finale with original and new effects.

    As you say, the new fx show massive rings of fires visible from space. The original illustrated the world with two visuals, both in the styles typical for TOS: a blackened gray/purple orb and an orange/red orb. The script (unaltered) does not mention fires, rather Spock states there are roads devoid of traffic, lower animal life and vegetation is encroaching on the cities, that masses of corpses lay unburied in the streets and there is not one person left alive.

    That's a bit difficult to account for. Perhaps the script was a bit jumbled by re-writing, but to me, it seems to imply a stark hydrogen bomb sort of vision where everything is standing and in cities people mostly staggered out and died in the streets. The original effects don't say anything to add or contradict that. But I can see the choice of the new effects folks to show it as they do and the effects are striking. Either way it seems after 50,000 years, Bela and Lokai happened to return shortly after someone pressed the mutually assured destruction button.

    In any event, however clunky the detail, it can't be accused of not having a point. In typically bold TOS dramatic terms the episode ends with the exchange:

    UHURA: It doesn't make any sense.

    SPOCK: To expect sense from two mentalities of such extreme viewpoints is not logical.

    SULU: But their planet's dead. Does it matter now which one's right?

    SPOCK: Not to Lokai and Bele. All that matters to them is their hate.

    UHURA: Do you suppose that's all they ever had, sir?

    KIRK: No, but that's all they have left.​

    That last is the key point where it differs in its intent from some other coverage of bigotry in Trek, such as The Measure of a Man from The Next Generation; that episode is more about rights and equality, whereas this story is more about hatred.
     
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  5. greelywinger

    greelywinger That T-Rex Guy

    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio USA
    One of my Top 10 (if not Top 5) episodes of TNG, much better than LTBYLB.

    Darryl
     
  6. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    #71: The Mark of Gideon

    Original Air Date: 1/17/69

    Stardate: 5423.4

    While beaming down to the planet Gideon, Captain Kirk finds himself still in the transporter room, but with the entire crew missing. He does find one other occupant on the Enterprise, a beautiful young woman, Odona, who does not know how she got there. The scene cuts to the Enterprise fully crewed, but Gideon's leaders say Kirk never arrived and claim no knowledge of his whereabouts. Their proclivity to mince words strongly suggests something is amiss about their story. Finding Starfleet equally unsupportive to the Enterprise finding its captain, Spock must consider breaking direct orders to cut through the bureaucratic lies surrounding Kirk's disappearance, which could also cut into Gideon's closely guarded secret, which the Captain is just now discovering.

    There are many plot problems with The Mark of Gideon (as is the case with many Season 3 episodes), perhaps the most of any episode. Allow me to list several (but not nearly all):

    1. Gideon is not even a Federation member, how could they have the ability to get exact plans to the Enterprise, including the Captain's personal effects in his private quarters?
    2. The obvious solution to overpopulation would be to colonize other planets, which the Gideon's are capable of doing, but never entertain.
    3. If the Gideon's are never alone, and have to stand next to each other all the time, how do they have food, what do they do with human waste, how do they reproduce, etc., etc.?
    4. If the Gideon's have no space, how do they keep their infrastructure intact (buildings, power, government, etc.)?
    5. It does not appear that Kirk's illness is an STD, so why the elaborate ruse? They could simply get him to take a drink in the council chamber to get his illness. Or why not capture him and take a blood sample?

    More could be listed, but despite the plot problems the episode is very enjoyable. There is something about an empty Starship that is very mysterious (even spooky). This idea would be used in future series to great effect. I enjoy the way they cut back and forth between Enterprises, leaving the audience guessing to what is taking place. Also, the performances of Sharon Acker (Odona) and David Hurst (Hodin) are very strong. Hurst plays the government bureaucrat to perfection, and Acker does a wonderful job feigning ignorance. Also, the dialogue for the episode is well-written for all involved, as is Spock's command role. One has to not think too hard about the central idea of this episode. If you can do that, it is a quality hour of Star Trek.

    Personal Rating: 3 Stars
     
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  7. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
  8. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    This is one of my least favorite episodes of the whole show. It's so dreary, that I just haven't had any interest in watching it in the c. 5 years I've had TOS blu-rays....
     
  9. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    Luke: When this thread ends have you thought about going on with TNG? If so, I have a suggestion for that. Since TNG went on for 7 long years, which would take forever to get through, what about just doing the "top ten" episodes for each season? How would that be determined? Well, you could just pick em, as long as you allowed others to nominate films that didn't make your list. Anyone, in fact, could post a list of favorites for that season. So with maybe 11-12 episodes done per season, we'd have c. 75-80 to cover all of TNG—in other words, just about the same number as TOS. Just a thought.
     
  10. HGN2001

    HGN2001 Mystery picture member

    My biggest problem with "The Mark Of Gideon" was the idea that a society so overcrowded could find the room to build a full-sized internal replica of the Enterprise. That just made no sense to me. But suspending disbelief, the idea of Kirk alone on a "starship" with just the beautiful Odona for company was a good one.

    Ambassador Hodin's right hand man, Krodak, was played by Gene Dynarski, who'd already guested on STAR TREK as one of the miners in "Mudd's Women." He'd go on to do an episode of STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION as Admiral Quinteros.

    Harry
     
  11. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    I have given it some thought. 1 1/2 years of running this thread has wore me out a bit. I think a ST:TNG top 50 episodes countdown would be fun. I'll kick it around.
     
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  12. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    A top 50 countdown is a good idea. Maybe those interested could submit lists of their top 30-40 or so episodes (there would probably be a lot of overlap) and then it could be distilled down into a list of 50. Would make it a lot more doable. And then we could skip all of the duds.
     
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  13. wayne66

    wayne66 Forum Resident

    Would anybody be up for Star Trek: The Animated Series after we are done here? I consider it the 4th season of the original series. It features most of the original cast(except Walter Koenig) and many of the stories were written by Star Trek writers. It is 22 half hour episodes and the animation turns some people off(not me) but the stories are good and as I said it features the original cast.
     
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  14. jriems

    jriems Audio Ojiisan

    Works for me! I'd have to rewatch my animated DVD set again during the thread, though, to refresh my memory. I haven't seen TAS episodes even remotely as many times as TOS episodes.
     
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  15. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    I'm afraid I'm not a fan of TAS. You'll have to count me out.
     
  16. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    My top episodes of the first 5 seasons The Next Generation in broadcast order. I'm trying to limit it to 8 episodes per season, out of usually 26 produced. I'm familiar with all of these seasons because the blu-rays have been out for a while. The sixth season comes out next week. Any other nominations or changes? I've got 11 for the 5th season, because there are a lot of really good and essential episodes that year. The 7the season, however, is full of duds, and so you could probably get by with just picking 5-6 from that year to make it up and keep the whole list close to 50.

    S1
    Where No One Has Gone Before, The Battle, Datalore, 11001001, Coming of Age, Heart of Glory, The Arsenal of Freedom, Conspiracy

    S2
    Elementary Dear Data, A Matter of Honor, The Measure of a Man, Contagion, Time Squared, Pen Pals, Q Who, Samaritan Snare

    S3
    Evolution, The Enemy, The Defector, Yesterday's Enterprise, The Offspring, Sins of the Father, Sarek, The Best of Both Worlds I

    S4
    The Best of Both Worlds II, Family, Brothers, Remember Me, Reunion, Data's Day, Night Terrors, Redemption I

    S5
    Redemption II, Darmok, Ensign Ro, Disaster, Unification I, Unification II, Cause and Effect, I Borg, The Next Phase, The Inner Light, Time's Arrow I
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
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  17. Remurmur

    Remurmur Music is THE BEST! -FZ

    Location:
    Ohio
    Not one of my favorites and yes...it's message, though eminently worthy, is a bit too heavy handed, obvious, and in your face.

    But, there is one scene that I do think is well written, and well acted by Gorshin and that is where Bele is talking to Kirk and Spock and he says something like " From what I understand, humans feel that they are decended from .................apes."

    He says it with such obvious condescension and contempt that it is easy to see that his bigotry is not limited to just Lokai and his faction.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  18. Remurmur

    Remurmur Music is THE BEST! -FZ

    Location:
    Ohio
    Yes. I love this episode, and I believe that it was one of the very first that showed that ST:TNG was capable of being as great as its predesessor.

    It's ironic that Data shows far more humanity than Commander Maddox, the cyberneticist who selfishly demands that Data be dismantled, just so he can further his own research.

    The scene where Riker, as the reluctant prosecutor, suddenly smiles as he has his epiphany when he realizes how he can prove Maddox's case in his favor and then a split second later, where his smile quickly evaporates as he realizes that he has just now possibly condemmed his friend to death, is well acted by Jonathan Frakes and is almost a gut wrenching scene.

    At the end , when Data seeks out Riker and asks him why he is not at Data's victory party and Riker expresses his guilt and remorse at coming close to having Data dismantled, Data replies that Riker was only doing what he was dutybound to do, and by presenting the best case that he could, in fact did the most to save him.

    His reply was not only spot on, but it was exactly what his friend needed to hear and the fact that Data realizes it, with human insight, makes him even closer to the human that he aspires to be.

    A wonderful episode.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
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  19. Remurmur

    Remurmur Music is THE BEST! -FZ

    Location:
    Ohio
    I haven't seen those since their first run on Saturday mornings way back when but I can still remember the one where Spock had to go back to the Vulcan of his youth via The Guardian of Forever to repair a damaged timeline that had actually caused his death as a child.

    I remember it being well written and it could easily have been an actual episode on TOS.

    If we did go there, I would not be able to participate, but I would enjoy reading the posts...:)
     
  20. wayne66

    wayne66 Forum Resident

    If there is not much interest we probably will not do it. I do understand. My hope is that CBS or Paramount will figure out that these half hour animated episodes need to be expanded to hour long reanimated episodes. Along with the computer game episodes from the 1990s featuring the original cast, these could act as the 4th and 5th year of the original 5 year mission. I hope that the 50th anniversary in 2 years will bring this to fulfillment.
     
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  21. Lord Summerisle

    Lord Summerisle Forum Resident


    I completely miss this thread. This episode is my all time favourite, great TV.
     
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  22. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    United States
    This is my wish as well. They could do some amazing things today. Even a Star Wars: The Clone Wars style animation would be amazing, but maybe they could hold out a few years and get photo-realistic animation of the crew. Done correctly it would be a huge seller. Here are my recommendations:

    1.Use ST:TAS and the video game tracks to create two seasons (as you said)
    2. Do not be afraid to create new designs for the alien creatures. ST:TAS is not sacred, and the designs can be much improved upon.
    3. Hire new voice actors to do the extra characters. They had James Doohan voice almost all the characters to save money, and professional voice actors would add variety.
    4. Replace the ST:TAS music (which is terrible) with scores from the original series. I understand there are no multi-tracks, but with today's technology, they should be able to separate the vocal tracks.

    As for an episode-by-episode thread on ST:TAS, I am not that that interested. There is a thread dedicated to the series on the forum though I do believe.
     
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  23. benjaminhuf

    benjaminhuf Forum Resident

    I really like Conscience of the King too. That whole grim past of Kodos the Executioner, mixed with Shakespeare, becomes rather haunting. What do you especially like about it?

    Please feel free to bring up past favorites. I think a few of us would be happy to chat about a few of the best episodes one more time. But we'd need more than just one line from you about what makes an episode like this one a favorite. In other words, I hope you'll post something longer about Conscience.
     
  24. Michelle66

    Michelle66 Forum Resident

    No need to do this. All of the music was released a couple of years ago, so it exists without any vocal tracks mucking it up.
     
  25. Anthology123

    Anthology123 Senior Member

    I'm not sure if you can equate Let That Be Your Last Battlefield with the excellent TNG story, Measure Of A Man.
    The latter was more of a neglect on the humanoids not thinking that Data could be a real person, but merely a machine and to prove he can be regarded as a living, thinking form of life. The former is suppose to illustrate how two almost identical life forms can use a very simple difference (which side has which color) to create a class or racial difference that leads to prejudice and hate. They are both stories coming in at different angles trying to establish a morality play, I'm not sure if both had the same exact intentions.
     
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