Star Wars (1977) original Blu ray. Crappier than ever.

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EddieVanHalen, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I felt like watching Star Wars (no New Hope for me please) yesterday so I gave the 2011 BD a spin. It was the first time I was watching it since some changes on my set up which is a mid-range 50'' (viewed at less than 1.50 meters) 4K HDR Samsung set and a Sony UBP X-800 UHD BD player. All "enhacements" (Digital Clean View off, Motion Plus off and Dinamic Contrast off, Sharpness is set at 20) are OFF.
    I always thought picture on the 20th Century Fox OT BDs is mediocre but Imust say what I saw yesterday is IMO real CRAP for a BD from 2011 and such a big hit like Star Wars.
    We all know the issues with these BDs, bad color correction, use of DNR to badly reduce grain trying to make the OT look more even with Prequel Trilogy, a plasticky look, crushed blacks, some grain freezing...
    But what stroke me yesterday what video compression, how bad and sloppy job they done with Star Wars. The movie is plagued with compression artifacts with plenty of mosquito noise and some scenes with very visible macroblockling.
    A "clean" and DNRed movie is much much easier to compress as AVC/h264 compression doesn't have to deal with the random nature of grain. But despite all these clean up this compression is among the worst I've seen on BD on my new Samsung T.V. set. BDs of 70's movies with its grain intact look much better and has less compression artifacts than Star Wars, and I'm talking about movies like The Omega Man (BD25, VC1), Soylent Green (BD25, AVC) or Rollerball (BD50, AVC on both Twilight Time and Arrow releases), all of which are not as famous as Star Wars and have far more grain than Star Wars.
    Why sometimes movie Studios treat well stablished franchises or movies so bad? Is it because whatever they release and regardless on how they release it they know people will buy it?
     
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  2. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    The time needed to put out great transfers and audio for the Original Trilogy was used instead to make sure the Ewok blinked and to create magic rocks.
     
  3. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Yes, and that's absolutely silly toput money and effort on that and then in 2011 when AVC compression was well known and managed by video compressionists do such a mess of video compression like this one.
     
  4. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Is it just Star Wars, or do the other films have these issues as well? It seems that most of the criticism of the original trilogy's visual quality post 2004 is aimed at the first film. What strikes me about the visual quality of the first film is how dark everything looks.
     
  5. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    There is clipping on the soundtracks for Empire and ROTJ. When the Death Star Explodes at the end of Jedi the rear speakers crackle. Botch job all around.
     
  6. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    That's the "crushed blacks" i cite on my original thread. Lowering black levels hide mate lines in a cheap way but makes everything look so dark that at times Darth Vader's face is almost a blacl blob with very very little detail.
     
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  7. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    It's apparently too much to ask for 4K (or higher) scans of the the original theatrical versions from the best source available released in UHD/HDR.

    Anyone fortunate enough to screen the new Ultra HD of Close Encounters on a legit home theater will only find themselves even more obsessed with the potential for a proper release of the Star Wars original trilogy.
     
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  8. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Close Encounters Of TheThird Kind looks great on 4K HDR at least on my 700 nits 50" Samsung 4K HDR set, and yes, it was one of the first things that came to my mind while watching it, "Star Wars should get the same treatment but I'll keep on dreaming". Look at what happens when a big hit like Terminator 2 is set for release on UHD BD...
     
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  9. Graham

    Graham Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    The less said about the various Good, Bad & The Ugly releases the better.
     
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  10. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I've been comparing the original BD from Fox with the Silver Screen BD which as most of you know is a fan and home made restoration of the original 1977 theatrical release. The original Fox release looks sharper, it's supposed to be sourced from the original negative while the Silver Screen BD is sourced from a theatrical print with faded color and plenty of dirt and scratches from use (and abuse...) and while this looks obviously not as sharp as it's many generations away from the OCN and has much more grain, even being dirtier looking it's compression TROUNCES the one on the original Fox BD and we all know that a dirtier and grainier source is harder to compress than a clean one. I think color correction is also excellent on the Silver Screen BD but I'm mainly talking about video compression here.
    I hate when a major studio it's lazy and pushes on people a sloppy and mean product, and also when I'm ripped of and the original Fox Star Wars BDs are both.
     
  11. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I can tell you for a fact the only version George Lucas personally approved was the Fox Blu-ray. You can criticize it all you want, but at some point you have to accept that it's not your movie -- it's owned by the copyright holders. I think you can make a good case that the film's creator owns it artistically, and their creative choices are no more or less valid than anybody's. And the problem with judging color is you always have to consider that the color-timing (in this case, done at ILM) was done on equipment adjusted to a different standard than what you have. If left to my own devices, I would've made different choices than what Lucas did, but I have a standard policy never to argue about color with anybody who has more Oscars than I do. There were cases where I convinced him to compromise a little bit, but in general, what you saw is exactly what the director/producer wanted.

    I don't think compression is really a factor in a world where they can routinely do 40Mbps on a Blu-ray disc. You're not going to see any artifacts per se. Grain is another creative choice, and the grain management on the Star Wars titles (even the earlier movies) was all handled by Lowry Digital in Burbank.
     
  12. jh901

    jh901 Forum Resident

    No one in their right mind is going to excuse the mess that is George Lucas and Star Wars. No one who's suffered through the prequels and who appreciates the original trilogy as intended back in the late 70s could possibly believe that name checking is a winning argument. Laughable, if not shameful.
     
  13. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I agree with all the points you're making but I think you'll also agree that you'll also agree with us as consumers that we have all the rights to buy a product, use it (in this case, watch it) and don't like it what we bought. In the case of the Star Wars Blu ray I paid for something that after use it (aka, watch it) I didn't and don't like it.
     
  14. The Hud

    The Hud No More Mr. Nice Guy

    I am not sure what you are getting at, but I like how you are getting there.
     
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  15. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Call me crazy, but I usually accept what is released as intended.
     
  16. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    The "at" is that George Lucas made a mess of Star Wars with subpar quality prequel movies (boring, badly scripted and silly dialogued movies like the "something on me grows bigger and bigger" stuff) and subpar quality tampering of the OT which he should have done if at all, like Spielberg with E.T., giving something new for the GCI generation but keeping the "old" movies intact and available for those who wanted them. The most SUBPAR thing of all is how Lucas thinks and does things. Yes, I know they are HIS movies but also OUR money to spend if product doesn't meet certain quality standards.
    Star Wars suggests that the young and idealistic Lucas was more capable than the wealthy and all serious (I didn't want to say "unfriendly", oops!) older Lucas.
     
  17. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    May I? CRAZY!!!
     
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  18. The Hud

    The Hud No More Mr. Nice Guy

    I think he enjoys pissing people off.

    If that picture of him wearing the shirt that says "Han Shot First" is real, that would be my exhibit 1.
     
  19. Jerry Horne

    Jerry Horne Blue Rose Speedway

    Location:
    West Coast
    Thank you Harmy.
     
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  20. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Then you don't have to buy it. Get something else. This is no different than a painting: if you look at it and don't like what the artist has done, buy a different painting.
     
  21. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Depending on your local laws, this is another route to go. I still don't know why Disney/Fox can't get together and do a Blu-ray set that has both the Theatrical Cuts and Special Edition Cuts on the same disc. It's been done with many other movies.
     
  22. EddieVanHalen

    EddieVanHalen Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I did worse back in September 2011, I drove around 150 Km. from home to Gibraltar, which is a UK colony in the Iberian peninsula because a shop I know got them 10 days in advance before official release date and I wanted them ASAP.
     
  23. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Or you can buy the painting and change it, which is what Harmy has done, and he was nice enough to let us have a gander. I own the Blu-rays, but I want to be able to watch the theatrical versions or something akin to the theatrical versions. So until the powers that be release the theatrical versions, thank you Harmy. If and when the powers that be decide to release the theatrical versions, I'll buy them.
     
  24. Time Is On My Side

    Time Is On My Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Why exactly do Fox and/or Disney refuse to release the theatrical cuts? They're sitting on a gold mine imo.
     
  25. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Zack Island
    The question is if the original edit is also under the same wing of the copyrights as the later 'special' releases or not. I know, this is one of my most stupid presumptions.^^
     

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