Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker*

I think you're absolutely right on this one and in theory it could be cool if you get a trilogy with 3 different directors. The problem here was that the styles of the directors were vastly different as were their ideas, leading to a real divisiveness once Last Jedi came out. While the Abrams movies felt safe, and closer to the originals, Johnston's movie felt a lot more daring, for better or worse.
Furthermore, the fact that Abrams used a part of TROS to 'apologize' for TLJ made the transition from TLJ to TROS feel really weird and hurt the overall trilogy. A more pre-planned coordination between Kennedy, Abrams and Johnston would make a much smoother trilogy.

 

I don't want more Star Wars and I was the biggest Star Wars fan you'd ever meet when I was 10 years old.

How much things have changed...

There used to be a concept in show business called "always leave them wanting more".

Now it's "too much is not enough"

Our whole economy is predicated on the concept that more is always better. more More MORE. Please make it stop. I'm begging the power that be.. This applies to all the "franchises" (I hate that word) that the stockholders of the media companies are milking to death. Please make it stop.

 

I honestly wish either JJ or Rian Johnson would have done all three,or at the very least outlined the overall story and better define each chapter. However,given Carrie died, I honestly wonder even if they collaborated closer if there still wouldn't have been a scramble for IX regardless.

 

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people like Star Wars. Most of those people want to see more Star Wars. Disney/Lucasfilm being a business, and creators wanting to tell their own stories within the Star Wars framework want to make more Star Wars. As long as people buy tickets or pay the $6.99 a month to watch it on Disney plus,they will continue to make more Star Wars. If and when the demand goes away,then they'll stop making more Star Wars. It's pretty simple.


I don't disagree with you completely on principle, but no one is obligated to watch something If they don't want more of it. If you don't want to see more Star Wars movies or shows...just don't watch them. There's plenty of other things to watch. It pointless to complain about making stuff one doesn't to watch. Others do. Just live and let live.

 

If Lucas had a plan, then it makes zero sense to have any other Jedi bring balance to The Force other than Luke Skywalker. Zero sense.

We have three films chronicling his lowly beginnings and his ascension to at least a passable Jedi with great potential. Then we have three films which shows Darth Vader's rise, as pretty much a bad ass, but it still all leads back to Luke. It gives us a ton of Jedi history, the Clone Wars, and much Obi Wan, yet it's really pushing toward Episode IV.

So, by the time we get to Return of the Jedi, WTF!!?? Knowing what we know now, the sequels are the payoff? We've invested so much time in Luke Skywalker, how come we never get to see him at full strength? How about Luke mopping up the galaxy of all Imperial forces?

If we had never had the prequels then it would have all ended on a happy note, with the majority of us thinking - at then end of RoTJ - that the galaxy was in good hands with Luke.

The rest of it might be good popcorn fare, but we're they necessary to tell the story? I say, no.

(I'm certain that there is no original thought in the above post)

 

Not sure if the bolded was directed at your own post or mine previous.


Speaking for myself,I'm taking all of this new content on a case by case basis. I'm interested in the Mandalorian and the Boba Fett series, but the rest is not by any means an "instant watch". I could see the day where I myself tap out and no longer care beyond the things I've already seen. I don't see myself coming here if that happens complaining that Lucasfilm and Disney is still making stuff others want to watch or read or whatever. I'll just walk away and be glad it happened at all.

As to your main point,no George never had a plan beyond whatever chapter he was making at the time,and if he did,it was always was changing. At one point the saga was 12 chapters,sometimes 9,sometimes 6 depending on what mood George was in during 1979-1982. Luke was initially the main character, but when George made the prequels he suddenly decided it really was Anakin/Vader's story and Luke and the gang were just to serve Anakin's story. If he had made the sequels the way that he planned,we would have found out everyone were pawns of the Whils and midichlorians and it was all about that. It was always changing. to pretend as some do he had some great master plan that Disney is ruining just isn't the case. The basic shape of Star Wars has been changing for nearly as long as it has existed.

I personally see the sequels we got as sort of an epilogue. The main saga is I-VI. Thats the spine of Star Wars. VII,VIII and IX is an epilogue and a bridge of sorts to whatever comes after. I honestly wish the sequels weren't numbered as they were and they actually just ruled them Episodes I,II and III of it's own saga that just so happens to take place in the same universe with some of the same characters. But,it is what it is I guess.

The sequels or prequels aren't "necessary"...but neither was anything after the original 1977 movie in all honesty. That had a beginning, middle and an end in two hours and change. Had it flopped, it would have simply been one of the countless one off cult classics of science fiction and fantasy that never had a follow up on the big screen.

 

Nah, haha...it was related to my post, that I'm sure many Star Wars fans have voiced something similar over the years. You're posts are always pretty cool.

As for necessity, it can be argued that the prequels were not necessary from a pure story point-of-view (they advanced nothing and felt tacked-on), but yes, you're right, they are necessary to fill a demand. It would be lunacy for Disney to pass up on those riches.

Did they go about it the right way? Assuredly not, even if you like the flicks. Indeed, I doubt that there is any "right way" to go about expanding the Star Wars film universe. Anything after the original trilogy will never live up to the majority of fan expectations, as the originals are sacred cows.

 

Well like them or not, the sequels at least give us all something to discuss about, so there's that. Plus, they do provide us with cool new locations and playable characters for the video games. I myself still like Kylo Ren's design a lot with the helmet and all and love playing as him in Battlefront 2 and mowing down Rebels for example. Plus, like David says, you aren't obligated to watch any of it. Yes, the sequels may not have lived up to everyone's expectations but if you don't like them, just don't watch them. There is a lot of Star Wars media available so just pick and choose.

I think most people here have the most connection with the original cast and after having seen what the Mandalorian pulled off, I would be very much surprised if we don't get to see more adventures with the original cast, be it using technology, be it using animation. Disney knows the demand is there and they are probably also regretting that they didn't base the Star Wars lands in the Disney Parks on Tattooine, since the Star Wars Lands have barely drawn new visitors, according to insiders. Even with all the sequel fans, a lot of people are confused why they can't run into people like Vader and stuff. From what I've heard the lands are great though, as is the Rise of the Resistance ride.

 

Correct. Which is why expectations should be adjusted accordingly. It's okay to say the original trilogy will never be bettered. It's okay to say Empire Strikes Back is one of the best films of all time, making cinephiles everywhere foam at the mouth

Bring back Shadows of the Empire as an animated series, please. Let Mark Hamill lead a talented cast of voice actors through that nice bit of '90s SW nostalgia.

 

That would be awesome. I first encountered SotE as an N64 game. (Still have it, I think) but later on learned and read the comic book and there's also a novel out there, plus a soundtrack. I believe the idea was that you were supposed to play the game, read both the comic and the novel to get the full picture. Even without having read the novel, the story is really, really interesting. It fleshes out the characters, introduced a few new ones and closed some of the gaps between Empire and Jedi.
To me, its's a rare example of a midquel done right.

 

I think Disney has retconned it out though.

 

Unfortunately.

I haven't watched Star Wars Rebels as the start of it seemed too childish. Loved Clone Wars after it got going. What I would love to see is the Thrawn trilogy made into a movie trilogy or a 3 season show. It is incredible source material with a great story. I don't think Disney has retconned out enough to destroy those stories. Pretty sure Leia was pregnant during those books but that is easy enough to not include/change, or you could just say she was pregnant with Ben.

 

They have, but they could just as easily label it as a Star Wars: Legends movie and nobody would care.

 

Then again,there's nothing so far written or shown on screen as of yet to firmly say those events didn't happen. I could be wrong but I believe both Prince Xizor and Dash Rendar have both been name checked or at least found their way as Easter eggs in some of the canon comics and novels.

You can probably place it in the same category as the Darth Plageoes novel. Technically it's no longer in official canon, but since Plageous was name checked in the prequels and no other canon story has officially overwritten it,one can still consider it canon until something officially overwrites,retcons or replaces it in the continuity.

 

I can't believe they didn't have a story arc planned out beforehand. It's shocking!

 

It it SO hard to not crack a Palpatine joke here...

But you're right. I fully agree with @David Campbell that each director got the notes where each character is supposed to be at the start of the movie and where they are supposed to be at the end of the movie but it feels like each director really wanted to do their own thing and not even think about the other movies and connecting them. The ST separate plot points and character arcs are interesting but due to the way the directors didn't really collaborate every movie feels like it's own separate reality. If they didn't the ST would be way better. Now, everything feels like it's coming out of nowhere. Some of the most critiqued plot twists could have been much better than they were if there was just more collaboration:

• In TFA let characters hint that something broke Luke Skywalker. Not just Han or Lea, let Kylo Ren say that Skywalker isn't the hero you thought he might be and that Luke tried to kill him in his sleep. Which is certainly true. When Han confirms this, the audience will be in for a shock and want to know what happened. That makes the final scene with Luke that much more tense. Has he turned to the dark side? It also makes his arc better, instead of suddenly dropping that he had a trauma in TLJ. TFA set up expectations that Luke was still the ultimate hero, without any trauma or anything. This made this version of the character much harder to swallow.
• As mentioned before, Palpatine suddenly appearing at the start of the 3rd movie without any hints or anything is just bad writing. Let a Sith cult or something work on resurrecting their leader in TLJ with hints of those plans being dropped during TFA. TLJ would have a major cliffhanger if it ended with the heroes thinking they won, only to suddenly hear that laugh again.

 

I sorta agree on the Luke thing,but I honestly think the Han Solo scene did enough to set up the reason why Luke left. I mean,Han says pretty much exactly what happened. A student (who we know later is Ben Solo) turned to the dark side,slaughtered all of Luke's students. Ben became Darth Vader 2.0,and Luke blamed himself and left. It's literally mostly all there in that scene. We just don't know the trigger that made Ben Solo snap.


Now, maybe a few extra hints that there was even more than that may have softened the blow for some, but the big problem for most of those that were most loudly critical of Luke in TLJ still remained. I.E. he wasn't the ideal Luke Skywalker they had in their heads when they played make believe with their action figures at ten years old. Also,it was made clear in TLJ that this was no longer Luke's story,but Rey and Kylo Ren's story. That was and still is a hard pill to swallow for those that went into this trilogy expecting the further adventures of Han,Luke and Leia they wanted since 1983.

Anything less than Luke charging off to battle enthusiastically,being a force powerhouse and thus dominating the trilogy as its main protagonist again wasn't going to ever please the "Not My Luke! It's Jake Skywalker!" contingent.


As for Palpatine, there are conflicting stories out there,but one of them that seems to have merit is that JJ Abrams and Laurence Kasdan wanted to use Palpatine in TFA,but Kennedy refused. Her reasoning was she didn't want to touch the ending of ROTJ and George's assertion that Palpatine was dead and gone with no return. She wanted it to be clear that the First order may have came from the ashes of the empire, but a new villain was going to run it. Also apparently, if Abrams is to be believed, Rey being of Palpatine's lineage was always in the back of his mind as his personal origin for her,but he wanted to leave the final answer to the later films since he wasn't going to direct any more.

Of course, we know what happened. The plan for Episode IX in place was scrapped,JJ was given carte blanche by Kennedy to finish it off . In the absence of Snoke,and the fact that Abrams had a full redemption arc in mind for Kylo Ren,JJ brought Palpatine back at the eleventh hour to be the bad guy and attempt to tie all three trilogies together with a common mastermind,as he wanted originally.

Bringing back Palpatine wasn't a terrible idea (especially given it had happened multiple times in the EU) but it should have been seeded in the previous films instead of dropped in the opening crawl. Kennedy should have let him be used in Episode VII as Abrams supposedly wanted.

 

I thought it was fairly definitive that JJ cast Matt Smith as the Son of Mortis guy with a smaller role for Palpatine until Bob Iger said, "No, make Palpatine the main villain."

 

That particular rumor came from Reddit,so I take it with a huge pinch of salt. Mortis DID appear in Treverrow's first script but it got scrapped by JJ when he and Chris Terrio decided to start over mostly from scratch. The whole Mortis thing was deemed too deep of a dive into fairly obscure Clone Wars lore for the casuals.

I think it's more likely Matt Smith,IF he was cast,was going to be a young rejuvenated Palpatine after Rey and Ben Solo had their life force sucked away or even a full on young Palpatine clone. They probably realized it was better just to have Mcdairmed play the whole thing and when rejuvenated just take him back to his Revenge of the Sith self instead of sticking in some new guy.

I remember the rumors that Smith was either going to play young Snoke,Palpatine or even Rey's father,who ironically was eventually revealed as a Palpatine clone. I think that there is more truth to that being the case.

 

Snoke. Ugh. I was okay with him until he was revealed to be a disposable waste of time on 8. What a pointless character. In fact I believe the absence of a serious threat/villain is one of the main problem of the sequels. Hux was a complete joke too. In this good vs. evil trilogy the evil side was pisspoor weak, and I guess that's what happens when the people making the movies never agreed on what to do with the characters, never quite brought anything strong for evil on 7 as a foundation to begin with, and there was no masterplan at all.

Having the hint of Palpatine from 7 would've made more sense if you're gonna bring him back for 9. Not that anyone knew he'd be back when they started, I suppose. They could've made Kylo Ren and General Pryde be Palpatine's main guys doing his bidding through the sequel trilogy and there would've been more substance for the necessary evil that these movies always need. I found Pryde to be wonderfully mean and malicious on 9, he's a good character, so he could've been there all along as a hardline imperial military command sort of guy with Kylo providing the Dark Side of the Force side of things - and then conflict growing between the two as Kylo gradually turns back into Ben would've been something else for the writers to play with.

Oh well. It is what it is.

But it is frustrating.

 

To cheer everyone up, here's a pretty cool fan edit of the climactic scene of TROS

 

Correct. Most of the post-ROTJ Legends stuff is fairly untenable now and has actively been overwritten by the newer books and such.

Shadows is after Empire, though, and could easily be reinserted into canon.

 

I think it's truly wild that no one thought to have a single scene (presumably in episode 7) with Luke, Han and Leia together. I think a lot would've been forgiven by the fans regardless of how good or bad the movies turned out in exchange for seeing the big three back together after all these years.

 

I tend to agree, even if they had to fudge a little with there being a hologram of Luke with Han and Leia watching it; a nice flip on the original Leia hologram scene.
But then people would be all "hurr durr JJ only knows how to reference, not create" so

 

On the one hand, I agree that having the three of them together sounds like something everyone would've liked to have seen, myself included. On the other hand, though, I think all 3 characters were in just the right place for episode 7. In terms of their collective and individual stories, I loved the fact that Luke was away on his own and sort of in hiding. It makes sense to me the way I read Luke's character. And it made for a great ending on 7.

What I won't agree with is that fans would've forgiven a lot had there been a scene with the three together. An elephant never forgets, and a Star Wars fan never forgives.